No Withdrawals From Suboxone
Before I rant; keep in mind suboxone is a “good” thing…if used correctly. I used it to get off of oxy and vics and to cut off the lifestyle I was living completely. It worked for me. Been off the sub for a long while now and for me; I just don’t have any desire, let alone any cravings for any opiates.
NO WITHDRAWALS FROM SUBOXONE WHEN YOU TAPER….
People ask me about my taper and for additional suggestions. What I have or had written down in my Taper 101 post was my final taper, the literal last step. It was not my first attempt to taper down to like zero before I jumped off. Before I took this final decline, taper or what ever you want to f-ing call it; I went up, down, sideways, couple donkey kicks and so on when it came to my dosing…and the reason of course was…cause I didn’t want to go thru withdrawals.
My Doctor, who in a way was just great because she just went with what I wanted to do…was also being though a patronizing hypocrit, but in a nice way I guess. “Brian, you have been on the suboxone along time now, you have been at 1mg or 2mg a day for a while…” She goes on to say with her heavy educated middle eastern accent (that was kind of hot and so was she) “Brian….see, you are down to such a small dose of the suboxone that it is all mental, you won’t feel any withdrawal symptons especially at the dose you are at, it’s all in your head, but what ever you want to do, you tell me”. “What ever I want to do….”…*lol* “Well, lets see, I want to rent a UH-1 Huey and fly around Southern California and or Garden Grove with a loud speaker and firecrackers…” (I know a little out there and I am kidding…I think)
I thought it was funny that my Doctor asked my girlfriend to come in with me on d-day minus whatever it was (which my gf had gone with me before); I think though at this time it was more to give me that push that I needed cause really I wanted to stop and get off the suboxone but I did need a little knudge or a 5 pound steel candle holder to the forehead. I had some questions though, that I had asked a hundred times before but I was a little more direct and specific this time. So I asked the following (or we did).
- “Are you serious, because I have tapered so much I might not feel ANYTHING, like NO withdrawals, nothing”?…She answered “Yes Brian…at the dose you are at (which was like .25mg in the am and .25mg in the evening or even less) the suboxone shouldn’t even be working anymore or doing anything for you”.
- “How many of your patients have successfuly quit suboxone and have any of them complained about withdrawals”? Her answer to me was “Alot of my patients have started and stopped the suboxone and I haven’t had any major complaints yet”.
- My girlfriend jumped in and asked “Out of those people that have successfuly stopped suboxone, how many have relapsed on either opiates or the suboxone and or have stopped and you haven’t heard from again”… OH SHIT…DING, check mate on that questions. My Doctor was like a deer caught in the headlights of life ”Uh, times up, we talk again soon ok, call me if you need anything”…(Like what would I need? A tranquelizer gun for myself when I jump off the suboxone?) Fucking hillarious,… I thought. I literally laughed to myself and thought ”Oh boy…Im fucked”.
To be told to your face that there is ZERO withdrawals from suboxone is just wrong in the literal and sarcastic sense. It’s like aguing the color of the sky “The sky is blue”…. “No the sky is Black”…. “NO, the SKY IS BLUE!”…and so on… The sky of course is blue but, put into a dark room with sleep deprivation listening to Journey for a couple years and being told “The sky is black and drives a 87 Nissan Pathfinder and it will pay all your bills”…. you’ll eventually believe it. It’s the BS with a benefit kind of thinking; if I am getting the milk for free, who cares where the cow shits (*L*). My point in being is that you’re gonna want to believe what your doctor says even when everyone else says the opposite, even by sure experience. Bottom line, suboxone is a great tool to put it in neutral stress free and cruise….but cruise knowing you are going down a hill that either way your brakes are working at 10% and you’re fucked when you hit that wall at the bottom. It’ll suck either way, but it’s better than the unknown rollercoaster ride of opiates.
Unfortunately, you can minimize the damage of the suboxone withdrawal syndromes by tapering but it’s like equivicating it to a full nuclear strike versus a small tactical one, either ways it’s gonna be a f-ing mess. There is no way a doctor, good or bad can look you in the face and tell you that “If taken exactly as I am going to prescribe this and going by my comic book dosing guide and BMW Owners Manual, you will feel no withdrawals or maybe just a slight discomfort for a day or so”… If have a cool Doctor who will work with you and “LISTEN” to you, they’ll take what I suggest you say with a grain of salt, if they suck and have a stuffed dolphin on the wall and a squirrel on their head it might not go so well…either way…who cares… Tell them the following if in the event you are given this line of shit from the aforementioned ”You sir/mam are full of shit…..but…what can you give or precribe me beofore I jump off the suboxone to put down a large elephant for about 12-14 days”….
I hope everyone understands that 1/2 of this is true and 1/2 of this is satire or more elegantly put “a fucking joke” to a certain degree. I tried to have fun with this so you, like me wouldn’t stress from all the bullshit sites out there either telling you “you’re gonna be totally fine and running a marathon 2 days after you quite suboxone” or “You’re fucked and it’s all over, join AA and find the Easter Bunny… On a serious note in regards to the Doctors; if you are going to prescribe something, know what the fuck it is and what the side effects are or at the least tell people what to expect. Granted it is a GREAT new line of hope when it comes to prescription aids to help people with opiate dependency; the drug is on the up and up but the doctors are on the dumb and blind train it seems…alot.
No Withdrawals from Suboxone?
Yes, you will go thru some kind of withdrawals and either way they will suck… If you do taper, it can be a hell of alot better though and it feel just like the flu (bad flu for a while) versus Hell revisited.
This whole post, info or whatever is in response to alot of e-mails asking me if there was a way to get off of suboxone “withdrawal free”. From my experience and countless others that have contacted me, regarding this question…the answer is “No, you can’t walk Scott free…it’ll suck” but you can atleast contain the damage if you take your time and taper slow. Remember though why you took suboxone, understand that YOU made this choice (with help from family or on your own)… and if you got your life back on track… THAT IS THE WHOLE FUCKING point… So yes, it’ll be shitty, but hopefully it’ll be the last straw for you and you can walk away from this whole experience… I did and have. This was updated (9/4/09) and I have been good since 08 with out even the slightest thought of even looking down the opiate road again.
Hoped this helped even though it was depressing and not very positive…
“Better to be prepaired then un-aware”
Brian
Suboxone Taper
P.S.
There are alot of Doctors out there, like mine that just kicked ass and worked with me. I look back and realize my doctor told me what “I WANTED TO HEAR, cause I probably would have just went on”. I want to thank my doctor here in So-California and also Doctor Jeff Junig (www.suboxonetalkzone.com) who helped me ALOT. Just a great guy…and friend…and I mean this guy was a friend to me and still is.
Comments (28)
To anyone who wants to tapper and be done with suboxone, please do it, I am a nurse and my son is taking 1mg sub at the present and I will tapper it to 0.5 this week, he will be on it for 2 weeks then I will tapper to 0.25 mg for 2 weeks and then every other day and so on till he is off of it totally. he started with 16 mg 4 months ago. he is doing ok. good luck to every one. Sub DRs do not want you off of this drug. just think bravely and do it
wow! i just re-read my post on september 11, 2009… i was four months pregnant when i wrote that….
an update, i successfully got off of the subutex, for the remainder of my pregnancy, had a perfectly healthy baby, but had major complications from child birth resulting in guess what…. PAIN! So i was given narcotics…. and finally put back on suboxone…. now i am trying again to come off of it….. i re-read all of your posts, so i hope that i can get through this again….
I’m an old SOB. Been eating all kinds of dope for decades. Been on subs for over 5 years. Am now determined to get off due to other health issues. Being an addict really complicates treatment for other serious conditions or even diagnostics. Anyway, have tapered down to 1/48th of a 30mg troche, about .625mg (it’s hard to be precise when breaking up the troches). I plan to taper down to as close to nothing as I can slice it before jumping. Even the taper is no fun. I feel like I’ve got the flu, legs ache and burn, sneezing constantly, all the things you hear. BUT, it’s got to be done. At some point you must come off to deal with other health issues which will arise! Don’t wait until you’re a wheezy, farty,
weak, silly old man to do this. I can imagine it’s no picnic in your 20′s or 30′s, but you can’t imagine what it’s like in your 60′s. Get it together, taper, and clean yourselves up. The sooner the better.
Why would they want us “addicts” off their legal drugs? They’re banking off us. They figure if we try to jump off the 4 or 2 mg like drs recommend us to do and we can’t, then we’ll go back to the suboxone. But we gotta be stronger than they think we are. I been off sine march and I’m doing great! Hang in there to all that are coming off suboxone. It does get way better!!
Sadly pharm companies will probably never come out with a lower dosage as to better aid in tapering. They simply do not want us to ever get off of the drug. Maybe a law suit is in order???
Oh yeah….and the .2 tabs used to be available from overseas. I’ve had several experiences with them. Temgesic is the brand name.
I forgot to say…..Mexico has both .3mg vials and .2mg tabs!!! U need to go to a doctor and they WILL write a script. Why we don’t have that size is a mystery to me.
i came off of 1mg by taking 3mg a day of klonpin a day i had to stop the suboxone felt like it was killing my body after 3 years of taking it every body different try to find you some benzos from a dr or on the street.they help 50 -75 % with anziety and sleep after with draw stop taking benzos or your trading one habbit for another i think alot of withdraw is in your head i dont recomend stoping cold turky if you are taking more than 1 millgramand drink plenty of water and vitiams you need vitams in your body so the benzo willwork better sinceyou propley wont be eating much
Mr Prez
Thank you for the advice, I will look up Robert. I have been trying to taper since December from the 16mg of sub per day. I have made two attempts to jump off at 4mg and at 6mg, and became so sick I ended up in the hospital for 1 week each time. I am out of the hospital for 5 days now and still feel very ill. I have been completely honest with the doctors, however it is frightening how many doctors don’t even know what suboxone is, let alone what withdrawls you might have coming off of them. For me, unfortunately, I cannot keep any food down, or fluids, my electrolytes and other body chemistry became very messed up. As a result, I went back on the suboxone, because as bad as it is, I definately agree it is better than being back to chasing that opiate high and the lying and lifestyle that goes with it. I thought I had tapered low enough to make the jump and if I just counted the days to feeling better, I could get through the withdrawls no matter how painful they may be. I finally did see a doctor at the hospital who deals with suboxone, who informed me that it can be dangerous for some people, like myself, who have underlying health issues to withdraw cold turkey or even jump from that mg. People can, and have, had siezures and other complications. I am very scared, and also disappointed in myself. I want off and I am not seeing a light at the end of the tunnel for me. I have an appointment to see a new doctor to help me taper down. I will take your advice and go to drug forum and seek out help from Robert. I really don’t know what else to do. I do not want to end up in the hospital again. I can’t remember ever feeling so alone and afraid, and I have also quit opiates several times, however those withdrawls were fast and furious, and these are slow and relentless. It is now May and I feel I am back where I started from. Thanks, for responding Mr Prez
i just wanted to say thank you for creating this site. i am facing tapering my dose right now, and this site gives me so much hope. knowing that i am not alone, and that others have succesfully tapered and gone on to lead bupe-free lives makes me feel so much better. thank you!!
Just a suggestion–I had a client that was a pharmacist–he was describing how he made specialty Lollie Pops w/narcotics for pediatrics–from that discussion, I asked my doc to write a script for .5mg compounded subligual troche, which worked very well, with the minor exception that it was flavored with lemon creme which caused addittional saliva secretions, thus diluting the troche and reducing the absorbance. But any doctor can write for compounded variations in strength–not sure how insurance would handle it though.
I agree if Suboxone comes out with 0.5mg then maybe the dumb ass Dr’s will finally understand it’s not all in your head ! I’m a Pharmacist and it pisses me off to see every Dr. I’ve read about or talked ignore ALL of the evidence that you cannot go from 1 mg to nothing, it’s not all in our head and no we cannot just deal with it. I would love to start a letter writing campaign and while we’re at it to the AMA so these Dr’s will take the blinders off and or stop lying to us. I’ve had it.
Raif,
Suboxone… in my opinion is NOTHING like methadone. Dude, it’s like “CHEATING” to a certain degree…. Everything goes away, cravings, withdrawal and the thoughts (well, the thoughts are up to your ass)… It fucking cleaned my ass up and countless others and it’s like a “twilight zone pill”… You’ll almost start taking less not even knowing it. Don’t do that short period bullshit taper crap… It wont do anything, you’ll feel like shit either way and you’re life will still be on the same track. Try to just stay on it till you got all your shit together then take it from there. Dude, either way, I hope all works out.
Brian
SuboxoneTaper.com
hey, my history withopiate started 35yrs ago, codiene, lortabs,several inpatient hospitals, but never stayed off more than a year, that was after 25 years of 30 t0 50 l0tab 10′s a day, i bit the bullet and withdrew cold turkey, sober 8 months, then having never shooting a opiate on a whime hit an 80 oxy stayed with that for two months, than was convinced to try methadone,well 8 years later im seeing a subox doc that is willing to ween me off of methadone w\no subox. i was 180mg methadone and am at 30 mgs got there in 4 months, and its harder than the start of methadone detox, ive heard all kinda stories take two years to get off of methadone, my pace looks like half the time, i started this search for someone other than a meth.clinic would help me and lucked out, remember i didnt have to commit to suboxe,
now its just like haveing nothing at all, old thinking is creeping in, my question is ive heard that suboxe is easier to kick than methadone and im at a low enough dose of methadone, would i be wrong to do a five or ten day suboxone taper? would it just keep me in the same sick feeling im in now? i want to be done with this, the right way, it just seems there are so many”right ways” out there!
please, any help anyone could suggest woulb be so apprecieciated
Hi, I need some help! I have been on suboxone 16mg a day for over 3 years and I had to stop taking it cold turkey when I lost my health insurance and I cant afford the clinic. I didnt even get a chance to taper off and nw I am on my 3rd day without any thing to help calm my very high strung nerves and I dont think that I can do it! My alternative is to just to say F*ck it and go back to OxyContins and I dont want to do that. When will I start to feel better? Has anyone successfullt done this without tapering off?
Literally I am sweating and cold and I have a fever of 104 and want to die, but the worst part is that I cannot sleep I cant even sit still. Help
valentine_jonilyn@live.com
First and foremost let me say, after reading some of your site I think someone with a slightly more POSITIVE attitude should start a NEW site. PLEASE. I have quit cold turkey from heroin. I have quit cold turkey form 4 mg of suboxone, and it was HORRIBLE, but I survived. I lived on to write this comment and tell ALL of you what’s REALLY up.
Withdrawls can be bad but you will live. NOBODY to my knowledgw has EVER died, and people have been withdrawing from opiates LONG before we had the LUXURY of suboxone and methadone. SO GET OVER IT. I recently quit for my third and hopefully FINAL time. I slowly tapered off suboxone from 4mg for one month to 2mg for almost two years. And, yes, my friends I had a two to three gram dope habit a day. I didn’t need 16mg of suboxone to feel ok. Moreover, I was NOT an occasional user or short timer. I had an eight year every day habit. Suboxone is strong. Don’t screw yourself by taking too much and trading one opiate for another. From 2mg I tapered to 1mg and stayed on that for 3 weeks. Finally I brought myself down to a half a mg a day for 2 weeks and then even less every other day for one week and guess what NO WITHDRAWLS. We are junkies and we fear pain. Get over it. It’s not that bad and PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO HALF OF THIS CRAP. You can do it and it WILL NOT BE BAD!!! In fact, I would take a suboxone withdrawl any day over a second of dope sickness between bags. Stay positive and your results and ability to stay clean will be positive too!
to vegas michelle, if you want more help on this taper.. go to drugs.com forum and look for a man named Robert… he is a lifesaver for so many people and can help anyone(who is serious) to get off subs or opiates… god bless
The key is too reduce every 4 days days by .25 percent. Take the first dose in the morning and the second halfway through the day. I did this with no WD symptoms… now the urge never leaves but the shitty flu like symptons never came about..
I have been on 16mg for 1 year. Tried to stop cold turkey and lasted a month, but just couldn’t do it. This website gives me a lot of hope. I didn’t work so hard to get off the other stuff just to end up dependent on a legal narcotic. My doctor has prescribed klonopin, which will be another pain in the ass to get rid off, but my anxiety attacks had me pretty paralyzed. I think anyone who has gone through w/d has to have a general fear of experiencing anything like that again. What through me off of the halflife. I quit other things and after about 2 weeks I would be feeling much better, but mentally, this was the worst. Depressiong was horrible, eating was non exsisting and no one understands. I feel like I will be tapering off of this for the rest of my life, well maybe not that long, but for a few months to come. I just want to be done with it all. Thanks for all the advice. There really isn’t anything out there for people inquiring how to get off of suboxone. Michelle
It’s 10:30 pm and I am sitting ay my computer searching for answers about why my suboxone taper is so hard. My doctor said that at 2mg I should just stop and put up with mild wd’s for a couple of days and then I would be fine. He is a well respected addictionologist – why doesn’t he understand what my body is going through? Just going from 2mg to 1mg makes me feel like I have the constant flu. It was day #4 on 1 mg and I had to take another 1 mg this evening because I can’t function.
Shit, I feel really desperate right now. It feels like I will never get off this crap. I don’t know how to do this and I am scared to death because the Doc said he would cut off the subs at the end of this month.
Okay, if anyone has any suggestions about how to do this please respond – I really need some help.
I agree absolutely, including the fact that will will not see the lower dose tabs soon, if ever. The same issues are involved with methadone clinics, and attempts to make the jump to “zero” from something other than the larger doses clinics seem to think appropriate. It is indeed fact that micro doses of suboxone, in the .5 mg range would be very nice. Preferable at the physical size of the 2 mg so that dosing at smaller quantities might be practical, especially at perhaps .25 mg, by simply cutting a .5 in half. I mean seriously, 8 mg tabs are so freaking very powerful, and I can’t see really needing more than that, EVER. Doctors often prescribe several of those a day!!
You have to “go there” as there are really no other alternatives, given the evidence and past behavioral motivations of drug companies. What motivations do drug companies have, and methadone clinics, to help get users off of their product? To help patients get better? Yeah, right. They are not bound by the Hippocratic oath, only the doctors are, and THEY listen to the drug companies.
I’ve been addicted to opiates since last spring, starting with vicodin and graduating to 80 mg oxycodone everyday. I would like to know, if anyone has any info, what kind of suboxone dose I would need to stave off withdrawl from the oxy. And, how successful is suboxone tapering… does it have the same ‘high’ effects as other opiates, b/c if it does, I don’t see how it will help me.
Thanks
This is from the Suboxone website and seems to be overlooked by many doctors. It will help, but there is still going to be withdrawal until full detox as the brain and body adjust. Patient may need tramadol/Ultram and valium in the interim.
5. Induction onto naltrexone
To avoid precipitated withdrawal, it is generally recommended that naltrexone be initiated 3 to 5 days after the last dose of SUBOXONE or SUBUTEX sublingual tablets following dose taper.
Prior to administering the initial dose of naltrexone, patients should receive a naloxone challenge (although not referenced in the literature, current best practice is that the initial dose of naloxone should be 1.0 mg followed every 15 minutes with an additional 1-mg dose until a cumulative dose of 4 mg naloxone is administered within 1 hour or until withdrawal signs and symptoms are observed) similar to that recommended following cessation of a full mu-opioid agonist, if they have been maintained on a chronic dose of SUBOXONE or SUBUTEX for a period greater than 7 days.
Hello, I am new to this site and needed information about withdrawl (obviously). I was told point blank that there would be no withdrawl from Subs. I have been on 24 mg a day for quite a while now and suddenly I can not have it any more. My “neurologist” who I had 100% trust and faith in just told me to DEAL WITH IT!! My back, legs, head, running water feeling, someone in my spine tickling from the inside felling is going to make me crazy… Last night I actually considered suicide as a viable relief…thank god Im not that brave. What in the world can I do? Tonight I am wide awake and to spine tingles away from full blown INSANE. I cant believe I was lied to and then told to deal with it…GRRRRR
yep we need a lower dosing option like for the prednisone i took 10mg’s. The doc gave me 1mg tabs so I could come off, 1 mg every 2 weeks. thats what we need for bupe
in response to dave’s post above… i am prescribed the 2 mg tablets, and i have litterally broken them into little crumbs since i found out i was pregnant (16 weeks)… i am taking approximately .05 mg per day…
yes, i agree that a 0.5 mg tablet would be easier, but atleast the 2 mg tablets can be broken into several little pieces….
-stacie
Dave, did you get my e-mail?
Hey Brian, this is Dave who just wrote you another email this evening and its getting late. Why don’t we all start a letter writing campaign to the manufacturers of Suboxone and insist that they come out with a 0.5 mg tablet. That way it would be easier to get those micro doses which are needed to help minimize the withdrawal symptoms? I’m dead serious. Maybe even a 0.25 mg. Then you could split it in half and get a 0.125 mg or even a 0.0625 mg dose. I worked in the pharmaceutical industry for a long time and the good old benzo’s, especially Xanax, had the same problem. The drug company’s suggested taper from their prescribing information was a recipe for relapse and the substance abuse specialists (ie psychiatrists who specialize in helping freaks like us out) all agreed that ANY benzodiazepine (Xanax, Ativan, and to a lesser extent Valium, Librium, Klonopin) should in reality, a patient should never decrease their daily dose by more than 10% each month. The solution early on was for patients to be given a diluted oral solution so that micro-doses of the drug could be given during the final months of the taper. Another strategy was to switch the patient from the short acting, high potency Benzo (Xanax, Ativan) to a longer acting benzo like valium and then tapering the patient off of that. I heard about a lot of successes when doctors used this strategy with benzo addiction. This is why you may have heard of heroin users first trying to switch over to hydrocodone (vicodin) or from oxycodone (percodan and oxycontin) to vicodin before switching to suboxone and tapering. The bottom line is that I am passionate about the fact that there is a huge need for lower dose strengths of suboxone. Don’t expect to see lower dose strengths soon even if the patients and the medical establishment demands it because I really don’t think think that the drug company who makes suboxone secret agenda is to keep patients on suboxone in order to keep sales up. Yep I went there! I welcome any and all comments and Brian once again feel free to edit any of this post because its after 1 am and I have to get up in 5 hours for work but I felt that what I had to say was just too important and I had to get it out.