Suboxone Withdrawal / Taper 101
My Suboxone Taper...
I have detoxed or gone through the hell-ish withdrawal off of "Pain Killers / Opiates" 3 times. My last and final time (which was my 4th) was off the suboxone after being on it for 2 yrs and about 9 months... Just some background so you know I'm not some novice putting my 2 cents in... Now, straight to what you are here for; some info on what an experience might be like for you coming off the sub / (suboxone).
My 6 Month Suboxone Taper:
1) During 2 yrs and about 9 months on suboxone I went from 16 mg (being at 16mg daily for that time) to 8 mg pretty quick with really no problems, really zero problems. This was not planned exactly. I just didn't need that much...I felt... and I had no physical / sick feeling during this quick drop. Stayed at 8 mg for about 1 1/2 years and then went from 8 mg to 4 mg in a couple months. NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.... BUT AGAIN I TOOK "MY" time.
2) In a 6 month period I went from 4 mg to 3 mg.. I then tapered to 2 mg in a few months. I did this and adjusted from 2 mg to 3 mg down to 1 mg....back and forth till I felt right at 2 mg...I did the taper, I went at my pace... I didn't let anyone else "push me" or tell me what the fuck to do. The final month or so I went from 2 mg to 1 mg then to .50..... I only felt a little shady when I dropped big amounts; like when I would drop from 3 mg to 1 mg to see how it would feel. I suggest you don't do this. You don't feel it right away, you feel it 3 days later... It's not bad though...you can adjust and do a 25 minute quick fix with a chip off your suboxone pill to make you feel better. It's funny how the "quick fix" is...; it is though a pain in the ass when it comes time to the ultimate repair work...ie. when you have to take the jump and get off the opiates or suboxone.
*Quick note* 90% of what I have written below regarding my taper process and what I went through while coming off the sub was from my notes / journal during my taper / withdrawal from the sub... I have edited only a little bit because I now have a clearer head and some of the thoughts I had when writing this were blurred. The following is what I went thru... Your taper and withdrawal process might go smoother or worse. Talk with your doctor first, if you can. If you have a stubborn or ignorant doctor, get a new Doctor before you taper or even if you just want to continue on suboxone.
One BIG point, just from my opinion. There is nothing wrong with long term suboxone treatment or even lifelong treatment with suboxone; again that's just my opinion... I just suggest that you should only quit if you feel like you have changed YOUR life SO much that, the person you were, is no longer alive.....or what I mean, your old self that was using is gone mentally.
SO....
3) Ok, D-Day minus 7: I went from .50 mg to .25 mg and actually less, the rest went in the toilet and I had alot of suboxone left. I suggest getting a $1.99 7 day pill box for your taper (that's what my girlfriend did for me). Sounds fucking lame but it helps you keep track of the dosage / suboxone taper process so you don't cheat (you'll only be fucking yourself if you cheat and it'll just take longer). It's just human nature to make yourself "feel better" and subconsciously you'll take "just a tiny bit more" and that will F**K things up. I am not a pro at the taper thing, I f***ed up a bunch of times; went up down, back and forth etc. Will power helped but my girlfriend (at the time) helped me alot by breaking the sub up and putting them in the daily pill reminder. Support is great but ultimately it's all the decision that you make for yourself in the end. I did feel a little "different" but not uncomfortable at .25 mg but I was ok. I think it was more mental than anything at this point.
4) Last .25mg at 8am on a Sunday morning. Went all day with NO PROBLEMS, slept fine and even had a steak that night for dinner.
5) (First +24hours) Monday Day: Morning...woke up fine, nervous though like I thought literally I would wake up with Death standing in the corner. Went about Monday ok. By the afternoon I was feeling pretty good, Cocky even.."Yeah F*** everything I read online, this is f**cking easy, my taper worked"!!!... Monday Night, actually slept ok.... Nervous still but ambien works great (I had written on my original site that Ambien CR "could or probably" would work better, NOPE, my bad....Bull Shit advice on my part!. Regular ambien kicks your ass right away and puts you right to sleep and doesn't "slowly" release like Ambien CR does; I suggest regular ambien). An additional piece of advice and you can take it or leave it. I would put the regular ambien in my mouth, but then bite it in two. For me it seemed to work faster and when you feel bad...every minute seems to count. Sleep is important but, you have to get up during the day and walk, jog, stay active so as you can get this shit out of your system. Staying active stimulates the natural chemicals that our brains use to produce natural opiates in our system...and with the substitute opiates being gone...it's best to give this process a kick in the ass. When you feel like shit, ...the worst of the worst... get up and walk even if it's just around the room. Next step, walk outside, then jog, then get pissed and fight this fucking nightmare off. Trust me, it helps.... it will hurt though both physically / mentally... it's your best option and speeds up the process.
6) (Day 2) Tuesday: Morning...Uh...Thought I was ok, I was very optimistic. Lost some speed and felt a little slow. Tuesday mid afternoon felt like I was weighted down. Uh oh... This is where I am suppose to write about how day 3 was all out Thermo Nuclear War, The Cuban Missile Crisis Revisited and or then the 7th Seal of The Bible was opened and GOD said unto me "I shall let loose many apocalyptic pigeons and they shall shit all over your custom chopper...." and God smiled and it was ALL GOOD.... Well... Let's talk about day 3.
7) (Day 3 early am) Wednesday: Day 3 is where I should now be telling you that the 72 hour half life, once it's up is not that bad. Ok, sorry, just telling you the truth. The missiles launched...Castro, Khrushchev, Kennedy never worked things out and the pigeons did shit on my chopper. I woke up Wednesday morning around 3am or so and my girlfriend was talking to me, I freaked out I guess. I was crying, shaking, sweating...legs were all jumping crazy style... I was in pretty bad shape. Killed the situation though and went into negotiations with another ambien and broke out the xanax or the big guns to suppress the living nightmare. (suggestion: If you got xanax (from a Doctor), take them (not to much or don't take them if you have had some addiction issues with xanax / benzos), don't take them forever also, just during this whole withdrawal process; so don't stress about the f***ing posts on how you can get hooked on them; I mean come on (as long as you have not had issues with xanax), we're talking about a 2-3 week time frame here). 35 minutes later I was asleep and slept ok. Jumping off of regular opiates, this would have never happened, being able to sleep so quickly even with the help of ambien and xanax would have been impossible.
8) (Day 3 continued) Wednesday continued: Morning, woke up like I had the flu and just the flu. No flu X's 100, no crawly crazy feeling...surprisingly and thinking about it now; the cold sweats were not that bad either but I did get them. I did have restless legs so I just went with it. It wasn't out of control, it just bugged. . Another thing, I was and had been eating even though I was forcing it.
(Day 3 continued) Wednesday Mid-Day: Not good, same feeling, energy now going bankrupt. Split town Wednesday night to a small place outside of town and was there from then on out, or thru the somewhat ruff-stuff.
(Day 3 continued) Wednesday night: Slept ok, took 1 ambien and 1 (one) 2 mg xanax before bed.
9) (Day 4) Thursday: Energy was gone, did ZERO except watch "suspenseful" movies to keep my mind occupied during just miserable, but bare-able conditions, bare-able to a degree I would say, still f-ing sucked. Went for a quick walk that night and felt ok during that time. No major stomach problems though, so laying around was not a major hassle. Let me add, the stomach issues were not a "zero issue" but they were not horrible like coming off of oxy, vics or a full agonist.
10) (Day 5) Friday: Felt ok actually when I woke up..., still shitty but "ok" for most of the day. Went for like 5 walks and mixed it up with very short jogs (like 100 yards) throughout the whole day. I was able to do this due to positive thinking though along with being angry about having to go thru this whole deal...now looking back on it.
Walking or just doing anything physical; this made the feeling or withdrawal symptoms go away fast for a short period of time though. Even when you feel like you have zero energy to do anything; you just have to do it! Trust me, it'll help when it comes night time / sleeping. Any tiny bit of help is better than nothing, hu? You also have to force yourself to eat. I did eat and the problems that usually follow with full blown opiates were mild but still not good. The stomach issues I had with full opiate agonist withdrawals is what I really hated, everything just going thru you and in turn this makes you so weak. The Suboxone, even after almost 3 years on it, didn't give me the hardcore stomach issues I have had before with pills.
This condition of diarrhea dehydrates you and makes the "healing" process take longer cause you are weekend by hunger and basically malnutrition. This is just common f-ing sense...but as we all know; when you have no appetite it's just f-ing tough to think about food. I ate pasta, lots of scrambled eggs, cheese and toast...I know, sounds stupid. Eating this shit would have killed me and gone thru me while detoxing off of full opiate agonists (like pain meds, full opiates etc...). Since I have been thru the real thing 3 other times and knowing how bad it could be; I thought "What can make it any worse so might as well eat as much high protein and high fiber stuff as I can".
I was getting cocky again and stayed this way. If I felt I wasn't hungry... I ate, if I didn't want to walk..., I walked (I sound like Forest Gump?)....and when I thought I felt ok I had a drink (not a good idea and I don't suggest it at all). I drank (alcohol) Friday night and woke up Saturday feeling like I was back to how I felt on Thursday...ok, my bad on my part. Keep in mind you are fighting to keep your body a float a long with trying to keep your mind together and on coarse... so, again....don't mess with anything that can trip you up or that puts you back.
11) (Day 6) Saturday: Relaxed all day, went on my walks, ate, walked...ate... laid around and so on. Energy level still low, confusion, loss of creativity and in addition my anxiety level was running pretty high. Where I was taking my time for my taper / detox to do this was up in the mountains, so there was snow there...it was very cold... I actually was punching snow, like the hard packed shit. I did this cause I thought it would help my brain release some kind of endorphins... Not sure if it really worked, cut my knuckles up pretty good though, but it did get my mind off of how I was feeling (which was like shit) even if it was just for a few minutes. The stupid things we do out of desperation...
12) (Day 7) Sunday: Felt.....nothing. Not good, not bad....just nothing. That is better than feeling like shit I guess. Maybe I did feel like shit but I literally felt like I was in a fog. This part is hard to explain... I was just brain dead it felt like. It did concern me at the time.
13) (Day 8) Monday: woke up 3am wired. Wide awake. Monday was foggy and I was so tired from lack of sleep. Still felt shady like Sunday but now I couldn't sleep at night or during the day. My energy levels were still low. This is what I didn't get. I would be so tired during the day and the previous week I could sleep. Now I was tired all day and come 10:00pm when I wanted to go to bed I couldn't sleep at all, even with ambien.
14) (Day 9) Tuesday: Though I did sleep or had slept kind of, it had been so light that I remember even being in a slight dream state at like 1am and thinking "I am not getting any REM (rapid eye movement) sleep". I am no expert but I do read enough to know that getting a deep good night sleep and being in that REM state is when your body really does the repairing of itself and this is important, obviously. Being at day 9 and with night 7, day 8 and night 8 being the same, I felt like I was leveling out and that I would have to put up with this unfortunate now barely bare-able state for a while.
I could function but I was very jittery, confused, dizzy and when I walked up a flight of stairs, I would get a bouncing motion in my brain. This had not happened before coming off of hard opiates ie. being jittery, wired, fog like confusion and not able to sleep. Keep in mind, hard opiate withdrawals, sleep is questionable....it's like you are so out of it your body shuts down and makes you sleep or when you want to sleep that is when the shear nightmare hits and you are kicking like a mule and paranoia / anxiety is at its peak.
Also, I kept thinking that I was at like day 14 (when I was really at day 9). Keep in mind that the half life of suboxone / buprenorphine is 72 hours and you don't feel "like shit" till day 3 or so. Even though I consciously knew what day I was really at I couldn't break this feeling or thought. Any other opiate / pain med withdrawal lasts a minimum of 11 bad days, or it had for me. Off regular oxy, vics, etc... When you stop regular opiates let's say in the morning, you feel like shit that afternoon... You knew that the w/d's started and that the clock was ticking till you'd relapse or if you hung in there, you could be in the clear in 11 or so days. Off of full blown opiates I would feel shady for 11 or 12 days and bounce back fast after that (with 3 days of feeling a little off my rocker after day 11 or 12)... Don't get me wrong though, suboxone is still the best way to go cause it gives you time to break that "habit" and get your life back to normal. Plus as I'll write about this in another post; the sub detox is more of a pillow effect even though it feels like it lags due to the first 3 days of being in the clear, then it hits you, then it lags or drags on. I would take the suboxone route every time though...much safer.
(Day 9 continued) Tuesday afternoon and evening: After eating good, keeping myself force-ably hydrated and being overly stressed about real life situations; I was getting worn down mentally. I was at this point questioning was this going to go on for weeks? I wondered... "Am I going to be one of those people that I had read about in the "OH SO optimistic forums who took suboxone and that SOMEONE FRIENDS' COUSINS' DOG WHO SPEAKS ONLY ANCIENT LATIN had gone thru 4-8 WEEKS of w/d's before they started feeling even close to ok again due to the LONG half life"? Then you get the following line at the end of these idiots overly negative post..."Oh and by the way....everyone is different though so you might be ok". Wow! Supportive, negative, stupid and totally contradicting. These kind of comments really F**K you up; cause you now are wondering "Shit, am I going to be ok or am I going to go thru hell?...Is there any middle or gray area"? Bottom line for me... I felt like shit, but not like I was in the literal sense of hell like regular opiates... The suboxone w/d's, it just f**king bugged... I felt just so numb and brain dead. I guess I would say at this point I was really wondering "Did I maybe do some damage to my brain"? (This didn't happen though, just telling you what I was thinking and feeling at that time).
15) (Day 10) Wednesday: Woke up Wednesday and am feeling "normal" again, kind of, or so I thought. Feeling numb, no thoughts, zero creativity, didn't want to do anything and if I did I couldn't think of something to do. I was also still dizzy or had this bouncing motion. I want to add this also, not only did I feel my brain bouncing, but I would also visually see a bouncing motion, very bizarre and it did make me nervous.
At this point, I thought I was or should be in the second stage (whatever that means) of coming out of this. Cause of the lack of good sleep, I think or I now know I was suffering from sleep deprivation. Wednesday did not improve, got more tired, edgy, jittery and felt like I was wired on a coffee IV drip nonstop. What the F**K, am I going backwards? It's this back and forth feeling... One day you feel like shit, the next day for a few hours you feel ok... Then it's back to the same shit, of feeling, just that... like shit. Then new things start to show up, confusion...muscle aches. Hey, I want to clear something up. I would not classify them as "muscle aches" it was more like the cross section of my shoulders, my neck and the base of my skull were soar and cold? It was just f-ing annoying.
(Day 10 continued) Wednesday afternoon and night: This was getting ridiculous, almost getting worse. Stomach was somewhat ok though, I felt soar across the top of my shoulders and looking back I had during this whole time. I guess this was the crawly soar feeling from the suboxones' point of view, which I was cool with compared to a full agonist effect / w/d's. At this point of time (Day 10) I just had shit I had to do, that I had to get done and I had to get back to normal, not only physically but also mentally and work wise.
Venting time for Day 10: At this point or day 10 of being in the withdrawal process, this is what I was thinking.
"Since I had tapered so much and for so long, I expected or felt like I WAS OWED a very easy way out. Hey, I have been off all opiates for almost 3 years, I changed my life, I f*****g did my time, my taper and I changed my WHOLE F***ING LIFE! I DID THIS ON MY OWN, I DECIDED TO GET CLEAN WITH OUT FORCE, WITH OUT SOME LINGERING CONSEQUENCE that if I didn't get clean something would happen. I changed my life cause I WANTED TO! I don't owe anyone or have to pay up for anything, I have done my time...I DESERVE a free ride...." I wasn't talking to God, the Easter bunny or some fat clay pot dude... I was yelling at my past, the person I was, the choices I made. That person is still a part of me and either way, both of us co-signed on this "36 month loan" willingly.... Got to pay up sometime hu? My time was up. It's either "Pay up or keep charging", I opted to pay up.
Keep in mind the effects that suboxone (an antagonist) and agonist opiates themselves have on the brain when it comes time to face the problem. It's like the IRS and worse...They don't seem to care about time, excuses or circumstances; one way or another you're going to have to pay up. New phrase: Death, Taxes and then there are Opiates.
(Day 10 night time) Sleep was the same. Light sleep but what was pissing me off now is that I had felt like REALLY ok a couple times for maybe 30 minutes here or 45 minutes there. It was now just a tease. Regular opiates, from my experience don't do this as I have said. When you jump out of the plane with straight opiates you don't have a parachute and you're gonna hit the rocks hard. When you jump with suboxone you have a few positive options.
#1: You get to pull the cord at 25′ off the deck
#2: You have time at least to think about what you are going to do...
#3: That you get to pull a cord at all.
Still, I am not taking anything back I have said, it was still, in retrospect 90 Xs easier or let me put it this way....smoother than the hard crash off regular opiates where Hell feels like a resort. I'm just bitching and explaining what "I" went through...
16) Day 11: Thursday: The day was chaotic, things had to get done, I still felt the same though, confused, dizzy, anxiety, mentally and physically tired but unfortunately "tough shit" things had to get handled. So with an overstressed day, the lack of sleep, something was going to break and at Day 11, sure as hell isn't gonna be me. I thought at this point "Worse case scenario, Day 15 or 16 would be better, so only a few more days".
Thursday evening: Going thru my e-mails while my 4yr old son was in the hospital and while I had been at the hospital for 2 whole days (while feeling like shit and feeling confused). I had taken a small break from at least 3 of the 5 w/d feelings by staying busy and having to handle at the least 7 out of 10 things I had to do work wise to to keep my house; it was now 7pm at night. I was though still working at 110mph cause I had to... and the stress level I was at was still way high when...something came to my attention in a very subtle way.
About 30 minutes had passed while in this unusual work mode and I just realized something, the gun (w/d feelings) was NOT at my forehead anymore; I couldn't see it or feel it. I didn't have the anxiety or that threat in my face or feeling that any minute I would start feeling really shitty again. Being in a crowded environment at the time, with family and staff around (I was working on my laptop so it was pretty mellow) I literally looked left... and then right... and I mean this literally. I was thinking any second the gun is going to go off or the situation of 3 bullets and hearing "MEOW, MEOW" like from the movie the Deer Hunter was going to be the threat and anxiety that had been there the past 11-12+ days. I let myself relax, I let my muscles relax and I "figuratively" pulled the trigger and thought about what withdrawal symptoms I should be feeling... Just thinking that I felt like I had a 50/50 chance of the gun going off.... I heard a click. They seemed to be gone... (I was still not out of the woods or in the clear... I was still foggy but not really feeling that hard crappy feeling).
Thursday night: I was burnt out. Holy s**t I actually felt wiped out without feeling drained out. There was actually conversations going on between two old friends in my head, Officer Neuron and Lt. Receptor were talking and seemed to be having a beer. It's like 2 old friends that hadn't seen each other due to a falling out and now were shooting the shit and patching things up. I went home, and fell asleep EASY. This was the first heavy sleep I had in a week or more. Keep in mind I was always drained, but sleep at night was just impossible.
17) (Day 12) Friday: Woke up early that morning and I woke up tired. That was a big deal cause feeling tired from waking up was a big difference from being tired from lack of sleep. It's then that I realized I might be in the clear. By about 11am or so I realized I got a Green light on day 12 (not 100% but enough that I could start to move on). Mentally / physically I was at 90%, I still had a slight sourness in my shoulders but nothing that I cared about or that bugged me to the point that I couldn't concentrate on things.
I still felt around 90% but it's a hell of alot better than having felt at like 80%-85% and overall mentally feeling like I was regressing or deteriorating by 5% everyday. So Day 12 was for me the end of this s**tty ordeal (to a certain degree). I can say now of course that looking back on it, I don't think it was that bad. Again, most of all the stuff I posted up here was from my notes / journal I kept. It kind of helps to keep one and check it to see your progress day to day.....I didn't go over mine though or check my progress... I just kept notes. I was just thinking common sense wise especially if you have to go thru w/d's on your own (either way even if you have support, you really are going at it alone); it' just s a good idea to see your progress so you have some kind of support even if it's your own.
I didn't feel 100% till day 25... Listen, what I mean by this is that at day 25, I felt back to normal...Kind of.... To elaborate on this; it's hard to feel 100% after years of opiate dependence even if suboxone is an antagonist instead of an agonist. You can use these terms but these words don't mean shit to your f-ing brain...all your brain knows is that "the opiate bliss was there and now it's gone"....and big terms, definitions and so on are.....just words to us...but they don't mean shit to our minds... Our brains function on what it feels is normal or how our choices that WE have made have influenced how it thinks it should be working.
Suboxone can be a great tool so you can take a break from your drug of choice, from the PIECE OF SHIT PEOPLE that may have influenced your life...from the DOCTORS that push the oxy's, vics, percs, fentanyl etc for just stupid reasons "You got a headache, here is an 80mg Oxy, you'll feel much better and so will my wallet"...from the personal CHOICES you made if you got on this rollercoaster willingly or not.... Maybe something happened though where if you had to take them cause of a real medical issue, they (the doctors) either keep you on them, which is a majority of the cases due to commission, misinformation and or they yank you off them after the cow has been milked cause they don't want their DOPE sales license cancelled.... Suboxone can get you back on track ...
The above paragraph sounds like a f***ing commercial BUT, just so you know, I don't represent the manufactures of suboxone. I lose money on this site, but since I get so many incredible emails and "thank you's"... I keep stepping this site up and will continue to do so. I only hope that this site gives you just that..."hope".
Brian
info@suboxonetaper.com
Comments (333)
Today is sunday and took .5 mgs. this morning at 5 AM feel fine, slept good. tommorow will try 40 and see how I feel. I follow the 25% reduction after 4 days, but I have read below 1 mg. should step down by 8ths, not 1/4s. I hope my eric clapton black box comes in tomowwow. It could be a snake oil scam but Pete Townsend did write a good article about the black box curing opiate addiction in penthouse for him. Also Kieth Richards gave it positive feedback. This addictiction to opiates is such a battle for my life that I am willing to try anything to get clean. Also good news is a NA mtg. has started in our town again and that is how I stayed clean for 7 years before. The thing about NA is crackheads can get over the mental addiction with a little time and wining, they dont puke and shit all over them selves for days like an opiate jones. NA can help me stay clean, but first I have to get clean, and I am just to old to do the cold turkey thing again and hold a job. I see the girl on you tube filming her 21 day detox from suboxone stepping off at .5 mgs. I want to be on a lower dose then that when I step off. SS
Today is Saturday and took 60 units at 5:00 AM. Feel fine.
today is friday and did my 60 units at 5 A.M. and feel fine. Ive noticed once below the 1 mg. level the depression is not as bad. I quit suboxone like this 2 years ago, but I weaned to .04 mgs. I had one bad night then ok. Im just so impatient weaning. I have to stay at least 4 days on each dose. How are you doing LB?
SS
wow lb I dont see how you can skip a day at 1 mg. god bless you. I took my .5 mg. this morning as stated and had to come home and take another .3 mgs. so I ened up taking 8/10ths of a mg. today. tomorrow I will take 60 units instead of 50. I was comming down to fast. I ordered the bio tuner and waitinfg for that to come in also. I have a week off in a few weeks and hope to quit completely then.
Hi my name is Bob I love this site very very helpful I did my taper from 8 mg film to 6 to 4 to 2mg to half of 2 mg to a quarter and then skip a day take a quarter skip 2 days take a quarter skip 3 days and so on and like Brian said you can do it if you put you mind to it thank you
today is wed. and I tokk .5 this morning and feel ok. a little runny nose. I will see how I feel tonight and probably take .5 again. SS
Tues. I took.6 mgs. at 5 AM and feel fine. will go to work. I have read using a bio tuner helps addicts with withdrawl. anyone have experience using the Bio tuner for opiate withdrawl?
Monday- this morning I took 60 units about 3 am when I woke up, I went back to sleep and was a bit uneasy so I took another 15 units. so I did.75 mg. today and feel ok. I’m going to try 60 in the morning again and see how I feel before work.
to clarify my last note,
the syringe is a 1 cc or ml syringe with 1oo units. I put 8 mls on a 8 mg. sub pill so one full syringe, or 100 units is 1 mg. of suboxone. so 80 units is .8 mg. of sub.
today is sunday. I went to .8 mg( 80 units) and feel fine. I set my syringe by my bedside at night brfore my mrlatonin and took it when I woke up at 4 am. also I dont have a runny nose. I am not as depressed as I was on 1 mg. that is an awfull spot, but gotta go through it. so instead of 4 days I felt well enough after 3 days and went down 20% instead of 25% because Im cautious. I also have no runny nose today. I will take 75 units tomorrow and go to work, if Im nervous at noon Ill have to come home and do another 5-10 units. I will se how I feel at bed time, I may load 80 units again. remmember my syringe has no needle, its just used to measure in mgs. in 100 unit measurements. Ive done this before and I know you have to measure exactly. hope this helps some one, and write me if you can relate. SS
today is day 3 on 1 mg. depression is awful. so worried about the future and how ive messed my life up. anyhow I have to do 1 mg. tomorow I know before I step down 25% I managed to stay away from my bad people for the last 2 weekends and havent relapsed. before when I weaned I remmember the depression is less around.5 mgs. I am going to step to .7 first though. I allways rush the wean then mess up. I hope I can do it this time. I did it 2 years ago, but weaned all the way down to .04 mgs. the liquid method is the only real way to measure the dose. every morning when I first awake I shoot it under my toungue and go back to sleep. wale up feeling good. this is also how I can tell when I can step down. the wore part of the day is aroud 5 pm after a short nap.
Thanks all for the idea’s … I am a 60 yr old who
was on Avinza 120 MG & 6-8 percs a day for 17 yrs..
In october I decided enough was enough & jumped to
suboxone…
I started out Oct 21st on 16 Mgs a day … After
research I decided to be aggressive & lowered
the dosage every 5 or 6 days from 16-12-8 till I
was down to .50 MGs ( film) for the last 3 weeks
due to the holidays….
I decided to get totally clean on Jan 5th & I
just passed day 19… I had many of the symptoms
listed but what has been the worst is the no- sleep
still & the chills the first 7 days….
The only advice I can give is be strong get off
the suboxone as fast but also as comfortable as
you can… Remember you’re not clean on suboxone,
but we admitted we have a problem…
It’s 2 AM &the start of day 20 , I know this will
be another sleepless night maybe getting 90 min…
Good Luck to all remember you’re stronger than
you think… You’ll love being clean ….
Hi Guys great advice here… However, I have a bone to pick. I have been on subs for almost 3 years (will be 3 years this coming June). Had a pretty bad Oxy Habit for 5 years, and was doing around 2 -3 80′s a day at the end. Mixed in with some dope at the end as well, maybe a gram or less a day.
6 days ago, i decided that i could not feel anything one way or the other while on Subs, and stopped cold turkey. Here is the interesting part… i left off from and average of 8-10 mg/day , and i feel absolutely fine (day 6)!!! I hope this doesnt come off the wrong way, simply because others here most certainly have had withdrawals, and i do believe their stories are sincere, but i have heard that since your reference frame is based off of the really bad full agonist withdrawals you get from morphine/oxy ect.. that you basically trick your mind into having symptoms. I do believe the mind is more powerful than anyone thinks, and i suspect this may be a theme less explored vs. people saying they really did have withdrawals, real or imagined.
Having said that, it just might be that next week i go into full blown withdrawal. My doc said that Bupe withdrawals are far less severe than full opiate agonist withdrawals…
As a result of my perhaps hastiness with posting this experience, it really is possible that i had such a high amount in my system (built up in fatty tissue) that these symptoms will not set in until next week, but this seems very unusual. I just want to be clean, and off subs, so ill pay the price for 2 weeks if thats what it takes. Have a great night hope someone can set me strait and perhaps guess what i have coming to me? Hope it isnt bad, but im off to bed. Got 7 hrs sleep last night. Nothing. Weird.
Hey guys please don’t listen to everything you read on the net. It’s totally different for each person. I have been a hardcore drug user for my whole life. My drug of choice was whatever you had I wanted an when I say I wanted I mean gun to your head an taking everything you got. Grew up around Bmore herion Capital of the world. I smoked it sniffed it shot it up anyway u can. I would roughly do about $500 worth aday. By robbing ppl. But enough of the war stories I’m here to help. After being locked up mental hospitals 5 rehabs. I was done with that life style. I lost everything. Then I went on subs an was on them for 5 years cuz I was scared I would just use again. Big mistake shorter the better. You have to taper slow an get as low as u possibly can. Then skip a day the take a crumb then skip 2 days then take a crumb. What u are doin is telling your body you are done with this crap an it starts to get used to not needing it as much. Instead of shocking ur system an just quitting. Cuz it don’t matter how small a doze u are on your body is just so used to taking something. So please do it right make it easy foe yourself. I’m on day 6 of no subs an don’t feel to bad I’m eatting positive mood no engery on an off sleep but thats ok. Take ALOT of hot baths as hot as u can or a hot tub. Take like 20 a day an go to ur family doc to get some meds to help u sleep an calm down. Wish me luck an I’ll be praying for all you guys.
I relapsed on MS Contin 200 mg’s a day for about 3 weeks right after getting clean in rehab. I decided to get off the pills and had some Suboxone left. I decided to go on Suboxone and taper myself off very quickly. I started at about 12 mg’s and weaned myself down to 2 mg’s in less then 2 weeks and then jumped off a day later. I felt somewhat OK for the first day or two off Subs, but now I feel like someone is ripping my guts out. My anxiety is beyond bad. Honestly it’s horrific, as I can barely function. My question is:
Is this normal to have this anxiety after only being on Subs for 2 weeks?
Hello friends…
I have a story to tell.
If anyone remembers, I was a commenter here for about 3-4 weeks, describing my experience quitting suboxone.
Well, that was in 2010. So here’s what happened.
I stayed clean for about 5 months. They were a good 5 months, I really got my heath back, looked and felt great.
So what happened?
I was going thru some old boxes, and lo and behold, I found an unfamiliar pill, that I’d never seen before.
You see, my opiate use was mainly 40s in the lead up to getting on suboxone. I’d never seen a roxi.
But somehow, after 2 years on suboxone, and 4 months totally clean, I stumble upon this little white pill.
Looked it up – roxi 30.
Ah.. what the fuck, no harm there. Broke that bitch into 6 pieces and it was like taking a perc for the first time. Like losing my opiate virginity all over again.
I tell you, I fell in love with the botch who’d burned me.
No worries. Once the 30 was gone went back to being clean, didn’t have any connects anyway…
But something funny happened. Over the following weeks, there was a little worm gnawing in the black of m mind, idealizing and longing for that feeling.
Long story short, this sent me on a year long binge of using opiates on and off. At first, managing them quite well. No problem putting them aside for days or weeks.
Well, days and weeks turned into just days, then it got to the point where I basically just took breaks to reduce tolerance.
The opiates had taken over… sly little devils.
So I turned to suboxone once again… felt great, normal… and the inevitable fatigue, lethargy, selth loathing came back. And finally I decided to once again kick the subs. So here I am again.
So here’s the problem.
It is easy enough to quit opiates, and for a time stay quit.
But how do you quit them PERMANENTLY? Once you let them back in, they gradually take over. And it takes a long, long time before you are ready to stop.
The amount of time on vs. off seems to always be in favor of ON. Time just runs by, no thought is given to what’s happening.
When clean, time drags, your memory is sharp… the months I spent clean felt like a longer period than the year+ back on.
So it’s quit easy to quit, even to remain quit for a while. But how to stay quit? I haven’t figured that out.
I’m trying to help my husband – he is on day 10 of no subs. We have a lot to lose and need some wisdom to help him
I’ll check the link and fix it. Sorry for the delay.
iv been shooting subs now for like 5 months. iv tried to quit a few times. ijust cant stand how much i suck at life when im not on them. im not as funny, cant work good, or get shit one around the house. not to mention i feel like dog shit.
Great website and great comments guys. I was on norco for about 2 years doin 12 a day. I now hav been on sub for 2 years and am at 2mg and now want to taper… I heard the biggest things are depression and te crying spells – did u guys experience this? If so how long, I’ve read so many horror stories for ppl taking amonth to get better I was thinking about going back to norco for 3 months and jumping. I’ve done it and it sucks for 8 days and it’s pretty much done.. What do u guys think? And the guys that are 100% are you sleeping a full nights sleep and happy? Any difference?
Brian… I need your advice how can i email you I tried the link on this site and didnt go thr???
I’m doing a methadone taper, and just dropped off CT from 20mg, and it is hell. your post in spired me.
I look forward to reading about your progress, JG. And your ultimate success! Sounds like you’re ready to go….damn I wish my insurance covered it. Oh wait – I might still be on it if that was the case. Never mind then.
I quit methadone cold turkey about six years ago…I’d been on 60Mg/day for 6-8 months and just couldn’t stand the sight of that snooty bitch at the clinic for one more day, so I just quit going.
THAT was what I was expecting when I quit subs: feeling fine for a day or two, waking up one night and noticing that it feels like your blood is pumping backwards, and then two months of black death.
I can tell you…honestly, at no point in the while ordeal did I feel like I was operating at less than 80%. Just hang in there…you’ll be surprised at how easy it is one you’re truly ready. Again, good luck.
I am on the films. I am on 1.5 still… Money is not an issue, my insurance covers the cost of my prescriptions, thank god! Lol! This medicine is very expensive. We will go down to 1mg on Wednesday. Plan on staying there for approx 5 days, then to .5mg, and then down to .25mg, then I will be done. I am so glad to hear people saying it’s not as bad as it is portrayed to be. Some sites out there are sooo negative, then I found this site and was relieved to hear people giving positive feedback. The “old me” is definitely gone and thank god for that. I burned alot of bridges while on the dope. I am slowly building them back and it is so nice. Getting back friend whom I had lost all contact with because I was so ashamed of who I had become. I am not ashamed of my past now. Anybody who wants to be a part of my life knows where I have been and are very accepting and supportive of what I am doing. I’m very thankful for them. I know that my fiance and I still have a long road ahead of us but we are taking all the right steps to be clean and sober for the rest of our lives. We have been together for 4+ years, got into this shit together, and are getting out of it together. When I’m weak he’s strong and vice versa. We have a beautiful daughter together who will be 1 on December 29th. She is our reason to get clean and is by far the most important reason to stay that way. I look at her everyday and never want her to see us the way we were for the first 3 months of her life. We want so much better for her. When my fiance overdosed on dope March 12th, it was the scariest thing I had ever seen in my whole life. That was our rock bottom and we both realized we needed to get help professionally because trying to do it on our own just failed time and time again. I look at her now and wonder how we could ever even get high in front of her like we had done. I lost who I was to the dope. I have found myself again and I am happier than I have ever been in my whole life. I have my daughter, my fiance, my friends, and my family to support me everyday. I can’t wait to look back and be able to say that we did it and it’s not impossible! So many people were like you should never have gotten on subs, their worse to get off then the dope but I don’t think that is true at all and I’m glad I didn’t listen because if I had I know I would have relapsed back to the drugs just like every other time. This time has been and is so much different. Being on the suboxone gave me the time I needed to get out of the fog and see clearly for the first time in years. I’m am so ready to be completely drug free! I will update again in a couple days to let everyone know how it’s going for us.
Jg – are u on pills or films? Films make it much easier in my opinion to drop steadily and slowly…I cut a “reference piece” of around 4Mg when doc switched me from pills to film. Every day I used that piece to measure the piece I was cutting for my daily dose. Once a week I would shave a sliver off of my reference piece.
I was on sub for 3yrs. Within that time I bought a house, got married, started building an actual future. When I was ready, I dropped from 0.66 Mg to 0.25 Mg (per day), stayed there for one week, and them leapt off.
I’m on day ten right now. I didn’t miss a single day of work (by choice, I could have called in sick for a month if I wanted to), I’m aok. My symptoms – even going back to the dreaded day three – can best be described as extremely mild insomnia and a very mild muscular discomfort in my upper back that only appears in the evenings. No stomach issues at all, minimal fatigue if any, and no mental issues/negativity.
I would strongly recommend staying on sub as long as u need to. I second Brians statement – only when u are certain that other person is gone should u try to get off. For me the three years on sub was an arm wrestling match between me and Old Me…but let’s face it, sub allows u to stack the deck in ur favor: even if Old Me won, sub blocked all incoming opiates. Win win for New Me.
Eventually Old Me got tired of the stalemate; I can’t tell u when or why, but one day I just realized you could set a plate of scrambled dope and toast in front of me and I would walk away. Old Me was gone.
You’ll know when u get there (if it hasn’t happened yet). If money is an issue I’d drop to like .5 a day – as low as u can while keeping ur safety net in place – and stay there.
I wish u the best of luck.
Thanks so much for your input! We are down to 1.5mg and will continue as you recomend.. Our heads are in the right place and we have so much support.. I can’t wait to be off it and be completely clean… Suboxone really did save our lives but it is going to be a real relief to not have to depend on anything!!
I would taper down .5mg per week. I would go down to 1.5, then to 1, down to .5, down .25 and eventually jump. Dont panic once your down to the 1mg point, you might feel uncomfort, but as 24 hours pass your body will adjust to that amount.
Overall though once you do decide to jump off, its not hell… Its pretty annoying and uncomfortable, but definitely manageable. Ive been clean for 55 days and i can say ive been at 100% for 3 weeks now. When i say 100%, I mean full energy back to normal, thats the last thing that recovers completely.
Goodluck, you can do it if your put mind to it….
I just found this page… My fiance and I started out with using percs, then to oxys, and within a year we were IVing 20+ bags of heroin a day… We had multiple times throughout the 3 years gotten clean and fallen back in. In march of this year my fiance overdosed… I had to call 911 and they revived him with a shot of narcan… Thank god. It was after this that we finally decided we couldn’t do this on our own and found a suboxone doctor in our area. We were put on 12 mg and back down to 8mg before we started our taper process. We have changed our lives drastically and truly feel like we are ready to do it on our own. We are down to 2 mg a day and have been for about a week. I haven’t felt like shit really at all during this process.. We tried going to 1mg and that’s when we started feeling the physical symptoms.. So we went back up to 2mg… I am so glad to read this and hear that it’s not worse then the withdrawals of cold turkey getting off the heroin… I think by next week we will be off.. I will continue sharing my story as we go along… Suboxone really is a miracle drug if used correctly and it saved my life and my fiances life. I don’t think we could do it without the 9 months of clear thinking. It gives you the chance to deal with your sh*t before becoming completely clean. I couldn’t be more thankful for this time. Just wondering though… Do you recommend going down from 2 to 1 to .5 to .25 or just coming off 2 to none because I seemed like the sickness already started at 1 mg so I don’t want to prolong it.
I just wanted to say a couple of words to Brian, the site creator and also anyone that might come across this msg. First of all I wanted to truly thank you Brian for this website. It really was a source of strength to be able to check in on your Taper/Withdrawal story and kind of see what someone else went through and relate at some of the rough patches. And to anyone who might be thinking about “jumping” off of suboxone here is just a couple words on my experience. (short version)
I started pills in college (oxycotin, roxies) and one thing led to another and before I knew it I was a full blown heroin user (IV). Fast forward 3 years and a whole bunch of bullshit later I was so ready to live a normal life I found a suboxone doctor in New Jersey. I didn’t know much about suboxone maintenance, I had only used it at rehab. My doctor put me on 24mgs. a day!!! Wayyy too much, now that I know something about it. So I did a slow taper of about 6 months till I completely was off after a year and a half. Just like Brian says a few times on this site, SUBOXONE SAVED MY LIFE!!!! It broke the habit of using daily, took my urges away, and helped me live a normal life. Don’t listen to these jokers saying this drug is the devil and how they were sick for an entire month. My experience was pretty much like Brians story above. Day 3,4,5,6 were tough but bearable. It steadily got better till day 13, 14 I was feelin normal again. Coming off suboxone is literally 10 times easier than heroine or Oxy’s. Trust me I know. It’s not easy but it’s not hard. You just have to want it. Good luck.
Great post man. it was very well written as well. you have some literary talent. It was informative and personal at the same time. I felt like i was hearing the story of a friend. I am nervously considering making the move myself to get off of the suboxone. I am at about the same timeline as you. I have been taking the films now at a ltl less than 4mgs a day for a few months now. relapse is also a concern. but the suboxone and dr is getting unaforadable and i think i just have to do it
thank you so much. have been seeing therapist for a month and a half after being on suboxone for 5 years. first time i have really surrendered to trying to get off. all of what you say gives me, arms me with the hope and facts. i am a busy professional, and i know when the time comes i will have to let things go and get help around house. your diary was fabulous, funny i am deeping one already. i am just glad to know someone made it. anyone. i thought my therapist was bullshitting. thank you, thank you
Ok guys, I’m officially on day 20 and finally my energy level is increasing daily. I want to give a brief run-down of my history and my experience with Suboxone taper, btw this site was very helpful.
I used to take anywhere between 35-40 10mg Norcos per day, obviously started off with one per day but as time went buy my tolerance went up hence the increase in dosage. After a couple of years of abusing Norco, a friend of mine told me about suboxone. I went to their website and found a doctor by, I live in Los Angeles so there were quite a few options as far as doctors are concerned. Either way started off on 16mg per day, one in the morning and another in the evening, shortly after i was down to one pill a day (8). One thing i can not stress enough you REALLY REALLY do not need to be on more than one pill a day. If you are heavy heroin user, maybe start off with 2 pills, but within one week start lowering the dose until your down to one pill. Its just a waste of money and more pain down the road. Im gonna be dead honest here, some of you hate suboxone, but it seriously saved my life. From the moment i was on suboxone till today i never thought about opiates again, the only problem was deep down inside i was an addict and i still needed to get my fix, so here come the benzo’s (XANAX). I started off with with one 2mg pill (handle bars) per day and that would straight knock me out, I shit you not within four to five months i was taking anywhere from 15-20 pills per day. For some reason my body has an extremely high metabolism and tolerance, i cant explain it, i dont even weigh that much (155lb). Fortunatly while i was on Xanax, i hit rock bottom, lost my job, girlfriend, two dui’s in a span of three months and any relationship i built over 25 years. They say never burn your bridges, well i was motherfuckin arsen. Anyways i reached my breaking point and said enough is enough. BTW during this whole period i was still taking suboxone, actually lowered my dosage down to 4mg or half a pill a day, was the perfect maintenance dose. Anyways i said fuck it time to deal with the pain and get off these benzo’s(XANAX). Little did i know its not as simple as opiate withdrawal where yeah as painfull as it is in most cases it will not cause death. One major withdrawal symptom with Xanax is seizures, very very dangerous to do on your own in a home setting, I actually stayed in a detox clinic for 10 days got right treatment and tapered off of Xanax, for most part pain free, even-though i must admit the 3 or 4 days of the detox were freakin mind trip, my mind was going through some crazy journey, cant really explain it and its completely different then opiate withdrawals.
While i was at detox facility they still kept me on Suboxone, looking back dont know why they didnt taper me off that shit as well. Anyways now it has been 3 years i’ve been on suboxone, down to 2mg per day and i decided to jump off.
In my experience first day or two were not horrible, their just annoying, anxiety level high a very restless. Its on the 4th day when i experienced extreme insomnia and that lasted for about three nights, by the 6th day, i cant say i was getting a full night of sleep, but i was getting about 4-5 hours. Cant complain, beggars cant be choosers right.
Looking back here are some of the things that really annoyed me, mind you it wasnt complete utter hell
A- 3 days of insomnia really sucks
B- Anxiety
C- Restless legs
D- Lower Back pain
E- mild hot flashes, initially 7-8 times per day
E- Stomach issues, not as bad as i thought it would be.
The biggest and longest problem for me was fatigue. You just dont have any energy to do anything, by the 14th day slowly and i mean slowly energy level started to improve and is still improving (currently on day 20).
Few things that help, stay hydrated and take a lot of hot showers, relaxes your body, because of my past i didnt have the luxury of taking benzo’s, even-though i do think they would have helped. I was taking vitamin B-12, i dont know if it helped cause i was taking it from the first day, so i didnt really experience a before and after.
When it gets hard just constantly tell yourself ” This to shall pass” or ” No Pain, No Pain, No Pain” remember mind over body.
All in all guys, its not that bad.. By all means its not a breeze either, but its not hell. How can i put it, ummm, I guess the best way i can describe it is its just a really annoying and uncomfortable process. On the bright-side its nowhere near as painful as i thought or heard it would be.
Word for the wise, again you do not need a high dose of suboxone, its pointless i was on 2mg (.25 pill) for 8 months and i did just fine, even when you taper from higher dose to a smaller dose your body will adjust really quickly in my case and most cases i didnt feel a difference. It was very easy to go down from 4mg to 3mg and eventually down 2mg. I read some of the post and i see some people on 8mg or higher amounts after 12 months, it’s stupid, YOU DONT NEED THAT MUCH, OUTRIGHT POINTLESS. The fuckin pill doesnt get you high. It will make the process a lot more expensive and harder.
Finally from my experience stay AWAY from benzo’s, very addictive and the detox and withdrawal process could be extremely dangerous. Most cases end up in the hospital or detox facility. The seizures can or will KILL you.
Goodluck….. Hope my post can be helpfull. Remember, “NO PAIN”
Oldman…. Your post was short, simple and to the point…. Great post. Thanks also.
Brian
SuboxoneTaper.com