Suboxone Withdrawal / Taper 101
I Beat Suboxone / Opiate Addiction! My Suboxone Taper...
I have detoxed or gone through the hell-ish withdrawal off of "Pain Killers / Opiates" 3 times. My last and final time (which was my 4th) was off the suboxone after being on it for 2 yrs and about 9 months... Just some background so you know I'm not some novice putting my 2 cents in... Now, straight to what you are here for; some info on what an experience might be like for you coming off the sub / (suboxone).
My 6 Month Suboxone Taper:
1) During 2 yrs and about 9 months on suboxone I went from 16 mg (being at 16mg daily for that time) to 8 mg pretty quick with really no problems, really zero problems. This was not planned exactly. I just didn't need that much...I felt... and I had no physical / sick feeling during this quick drop. Stayed at 8 mg for about 1 1/2 years and then went from 8 mg to 4 mg in a couple months. NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.... BUT AGAIN I TOOK "MY" time.
2) In a 6 month period I went from 4 mg to 3 mg.. I then tapered to 2 mg in a few months. I did this and adjusted from 2 mg to 3 mg down to 1 mg....back and forth till I felt right at 2 mg...I did the taper, I went at my pace... I didn't let anyone else "push me" or tell me what the fuck to do. The final month or so I went from 2 mg to 1 mg then to .50..... I only felt a little shady when I dropped big amounts; like when I would drop from 3 mg to 1 mg to see how it would feel. I suggest you don't do this. You don't feel it right away, you feel it 3 days later... It's not bad though...you can adjust and do a 25 minute quick fix with a chip off your suboxone pill to make you feel better. It's funny how the "quick fix" is...; it is though a pain in the ass when it comes time to the ultimate repair work...ie. when you have to take the jump and get off the opiates or suboxone.
*Quick note* 90% of what I have written below regarding my taper process and what I went through while coming off the sub was from my notes / journal during my taper / withdrawal from the sub... I have edited only a little bit because I now have a clearer head and some of the thoughts I had when writing this were blurred. The following is what I went thru... Your taper and withdrawal process might go smoother or worse. Talk with your doctor first, if you can. If you have a stubborn or ignorant doctor, get a new Doctor before you taper or even if you just want to continue on suboxone.
One BIG point, just from my opinion. There is nothing wrong with long term suboxone treatment or even lifelong treatment with suboxone; again that's just my opinion... I just suggest that you should only quit if you feel like you have changed YOUR life SO much that, the person you were, is no longer alive.....or what I mean, your old self that was using is gone mentally.
SO....
3) Ok, D-Day minus 7: I went from .50 mg to .25 mg and actually less, the rest went in the toilet and I had alot of suboxone left. I suggest getting a $1.99 7 day pill box for your taper (that's what my girlfriend did for me). Sounds fucking lame but it helps you keep track of the dosage / suboxone taper process so you don't cheat (you'll only be fucking yourself if you cheat and it'll just take longer). It's just human nature to make yourself "feel better" and subconsciously you'll take "just a tiny bit more" and that will F**K things up. I am not a pro at the taper thing, I f***ed up a bunch of times; went up down, back and forth etc. Will power helped but my girlfriend (at the time) helped me alot by breaking the sub up and putting them in the daily pill reminder. Support is great but ultimately it's all the decision that you make for yourself in the end. I did feel a little "different" but not uncomfortable at .25 mg but I was ok. I think it was more mental than anything at this point.
4) Last .25mg at 8am on a Sunday morning. Went all day with NO PROBLEMS, slept fine and even had a steak that night for dinner.
5) (First +24hours) Monday Day: Morning...woke up fine, nervous though like I thought literally I would wake up with Death standing in the corner. Went about Monday ok. By the afternoon I was feeling pretty good, Cocky even.."Yeah F*** everything I read online, this is f**cking easy, my taper worked"!!!... Monday Night, actually slept ok.... Nervous still but ambien works great (I had written on my original site that Ambien CR "could or probably" would work better, NOPE, my bad....Bull Shit advice on my part!. Regular ambien kicks your ass right away and puts you right to sleep and doesn't "slowly" release like Ambien CR does; I suggest regular ambien). An additional piece of advice and you can take it or leave it. I would put the regular ambien in my mouth, but then bite it in two. For me it seemed to work faster and when you feel bad...every minute seems to count. Sleep is important but, you have to get up during the day and walk, jog, stay active so as you can get this shit out of your system. Staying active stimulates the natural chemicals that our brains use to produce natural opiates in our system...and with the substitute opiates being gone...it's best to give this process a kick in the ass. When you feel like shit, ...the worst of the worst... get up and walk even if it's just around the room. Next step, walk outside, then jog, then get pissed and fight this fucking nightmare off. Trust me, it helps.... it will hurt though both physically / mentally... it's your best option and speeds up the process.
6) (Day 2) Tuesday: Morning...Uh...Thought I was ok, I was very optimistic. Lost some speed and felt a little slow. Tuesday mid afternoon felt like I was weighted down. Uh oh... This is where I am suppose to write about how day 3 was all out Thermo Nuclear War, The Cuban Missile Crisis Revisited and or then the 7th Seal of The Bible was opened and GOD said unto me "I shall let loose many apocalyptic pigeons and they shall shit all over your custom chopper...." and God smiled and it was ALL GOOD.... Well... Let's talk about day 3.
7) (Day 3 early am) Wednesday: Day 3 is where I should now be telling you that the 72 hour half life, once it's up is not that bad. Ok, sorry, just telling you the truth. The missiles launched...Castro, Khrushchev, Kennedy never worked things out and the pigeons did shit on my chopper. I woke up Wednesday morning around 3am or so and my girlfriend was talking to me, I freaked out I guess. I was crying, shaking, sweating...legs were all jumping crazy style... I was in pretty bad shape. Killed the situation though and went into negotiations with another ambien and broke out the xanax or the big guns to suppress the living nightmare. (suggestion: If you got xanax (from a Doctor), take them (not to much or don't take them if you have had some addiction issues with xanax / benzos), don't take them forever also, just during this whole withdrawal process; so don't stress about the f***ing posts on how you can get hooked on them; I mean come on (as long as you have not had issues with xanax), we're talking about a 2-3 week time frame here). 35 minutes later I was asleep and slept ok. Jumping off of regular opiates, this would have never happened, being able to sleep so quickly even with the help of ambien and xanax would have been impossible.
8) (Day 3 continued) Wednesday continued: Morning, woke up like I had the flu and just the flu. No flu X's 100, no crawly crazy feeling...surprisingly and thinking about it now; the cold sweats were not that bad either but I did get them. I did have restless legs so I just went with it. It wasn't out of control, it just bugged. . Another thing, I was and had been eating even though I was forcing it.
(Day 3 continued) Wednesday Mid-Day: Not good, same feeling, energy now going bankrupt. Split town Wednesday night to a small place outside of town and was there from then on out, or thru the somewhat ruff-stuff.
(Day 3 continued) Wednesday night: Slept ok, took 1 ambien and 1 (one) 2 mg xanax before bed.
9) (Day 4) Thursday: Energy was gone, did ZERO except watch "suspenseful" movies to keep my mind occupied during just miserable, but bare-able conditions, bare-able to a degree I would say, still f-ing sucked. Went for a quick walk that night and felt ok during that time. No major stomach problems though, so laying around was not a major hassle. Let me add, the stomach issues were not a "zero issue" but they were not horrible like coming off of oxy, vics or a full agonist.
10) (Day 5) Friday: Felt ok actually when I woke up..., still shitty but "ok" for most of the day. Went for like 5 walks and mixed it up with very short jogs (like 100 yards) throughout the whole day. I was able to do this due to positive thinking though along with being angry about having to go thru this whole deal...now looking back on it.
Walking or just doing anything physical; this made the feeling or withdrawal symptoms go away fast for a short period of time though. Even when you feel like you have zero energy to do anything; you just have to do it! Trust me, it'll help when it comes night time / sleeping. Any tiny bit of help is better than nothing, hu? You also have to force yourself to eat. I did eat and the problems that usually follow with full blown opiates were mild but still not good. The stomach issues I had with full opiate agonist withdrawals is what I really hated, everything just going thru you and in turn this makes you so weak. The Suboxone, even after almost 3 years on it, didn't give me the hardcore stomach issues I have had before with pills.
This condition of diarrhea dehydrates you and makes the "healing" process take longer cause you are weekend by hunger and basically malnutrition. This is just common f-ing sense...but as we all know; when you have no appetite it's just f-ing tough to think about food. I ate pasta, lots of scrambled eggs, cheese and toast...I know, sounds stupid. Eating this shit would have killed me and gone thru me while detoxing off of full opiate agonists (like pain meds, full opiates etc...). Since I have been thru the real thing 3 other times and knowing how bad it could be; I thought "What can make it any worse so might as well eat as much high protein and high fiber stuff as I can".
I was getting cocky again and stayed this way. If I felt I wasn't hungry... I ate, if I didn't want to walk..., I walked (I sound like Forest Gump?)....and when I thought I felt ok I had a drink (not a good idea and I don't suggest it at all). I drank (alcohol) Friday night and woke up Saturday feeling like I was back to how I felt on Thursday...ok, my bad on my part. Keep in mind you are fighting to keep your body a float a long with trying to keep your mind together and on coarse... so, again....don't mess with anything that can trip you up or that puts you back.
11) (Day 6) Saturday: Relaxed all day, went on my walks, ate, walked...ate... laid around and so on. Energy level still low, confusion, loss of creativity and in addition my anxiety level was running pretty high. Where I was taking my time for my taper / detox to do this was up in the mountains, so there was snow there...it was very cold... I actually was punching snow, like the hard packed shit. I did this cause I thought it would help my brain release some kind of endorphins... Not sure if it really worked, cut my knuckles up pretty good though, but it did get my mind off of how I was feeling (which was like shit) even if it was just for a few minutes. The stupid things we do out of desperation...
12) (Day 7) Sunday: Felt.....nothing. Not good, not bad....just nothing. That is better than feeling like shit I guess. Maybe I did feel like shit but I literally felt like I was in a fog. This part is hard to explain... I was just brain dead it felt like. It did concern me at the time.
13) (Day 8) Monday: woke up 3am wired. Wide awake. Monday was foggy and I was so tired from lack of sleep. Still felt shady like Sunday but now I couldn't sleep at night or during the day. My energy levels were still low. This is what I didn't get. I would be so tired during the day and the previous week I could sleep. Now I was tired all day and come 10:00pm when I wanted to go to bed I couldn't sleep at all, even with ambien.
14) (Day 9) Tuesday: Though I did sleep or had slept kind of, it had been so light that I remember even being in a slight dream state at like 1am and thinking "I am not getting any REM (rapid eye movement) sleep". I am no expert but I do read enough to know that getting a deep good night sleep and being in that REM state is when your body really does the repairing of itself and this is important, obviously. Being at day 9 and with night 7, day 8 and night 8 being the same, I felt like I was leveling out and that I would have to put up with this unfortunate now barely bare-able state for a while.
I could function but I was very jittery, confused, dizzy and when I walked up a flight of stairs, I would get a bouncing motion in my brain. This had not happened before coming off of hard opiates ie. being jittery, wired, fog like confusion and not able to sleep. Keep in mind, hard opiate withdrawals, sleep is questionable....it's like you are so out of it your body shuts down and makes you sleep or when you want to sleep that is when the shear nightmare hits and you are kicking like a mule and paranoia / anxiety is at its peak.
Also, I kept thinking that I was at like day 14 (when I was really at day 9). Keep in mind that the half life of suboxone / buprenorphine is 72 hours and you don't feel "like shit" till day 3 or so. Even though I consciously knew what day I was really at I couldn't break this feeling or thought. Any other opiate / pain med withdrawal lasts a minimum of 11 bad days, or it had for me. Off regular oxy, vics, etc... When you stop regular opiates let's say in the morning, you feel like shit that afternoon... You knew that the w/d's started and that the clock was ticking till you'd relapse or if you hung in there, you could be in the clear in 11 or so days. Off of full blown opiates I would feel shady for 11 or 12 days and bounce back fast after that (with 3 days of feeling a little off my rocker after day 11 or 12)... Don't get me wrong though, suboxone is still the best way to go cause it gives you time to break that "habit" and get your life back to normal. Plus as I'll write about this in another post; the sub detox is more of a pillow effect even though it feels like it lags due to the first 3 days of being in the clear, then it hits you, then it lags or drags on. I would take the suboxone route every time though...much safer.
(Day 9 continued) Tuesday afternoon and evening: After eating good, keeping myself force-ably hydrated and being overly stressed about real life situations; I was getting worn down mentally. I was at this point questioning was this going to go on for weeks? I wondered... "Am I going to be one of those people that I had read about in the "OH SO optimistic forums who took suboxone and that SOMEONE FRIENDS' COUSINS' DOG WHO SPEAKS ONLY ANCIENT LATIN had gone thru 4-8 WEEKS of w/d's before they started feeling even close to ok again due to the LONG half life"? Then you get the following line at the end of these idiots overly negative post..."Oh and by the way....everyone is different though so you might be ok". Wow! Supportive, negative, stupid and totally contradicting. These kind of comments really F**K you up; cause you now are wondering "Shit, am I going to be ok or am I going to go thru hell?...Is there any middle or gray area"? Bottom line for me... I felt like shit, but not like I was in the literal sense of hell like regular opiates... The suboxone w/d's, it just f**king bugged... I felt just so numb and brain dead. I guess I would say at this point I was really wondering "Did I maybe do some damage to my brain"? (This didn't happen though, just telling you what I was thinking and feeling at that time).
15) (Day 10) Wednesday: Woke up Wednesday and am feeling "normal" again, kind of, or so I thought. Feeling numb, no thoughts, zero creativity, didn't want to do anything and if I did I couldn't think of something to do. I was also still dizzy or had this bouncing motion. I want to add this also, not only did I feel my brain bouncing, but I would also visually see a bouncing motion, very bizarre and it did make me nervous.
At this point, I thought I was or should be in the second stage (whatever that means) of coming out of this. Cause of the lack of good sleep, I think or I now know I was suffering from sleep deprivation. Wednesday did not improve, got more tired, edgy, jittery and felt like I was wired on a coffee IV drip nonstop. What the F**K, am I going backwards? It's this back and forth feeling... One day you feel like shit, the next day for a few hours you feel ok... Then it's back to the same shit, of feeling, just that... like shit. Then new things start to show up, confusion...muscle aches. Hey, I want to clear something up. I would not classify them as "muscle aches" it was more like the cross section of my shoulders, my neck and the base of my skull were soar and cold? It was just f-ing annoying.
(Day 10 continued) Wednesday afternoon and night: This was getting ridiculous, almost getting worse. Stomach was somewhat ok though, I felt soar across the top of my shoulders and looking back I had during this whole time. I guess this was the crawly soar feeling from the suboxones' point of view, which I was cool with compared to a full agonist effect / w/d's. At this point of time (Day 10) I just had shit I had to do, that I had to get done and I had to get back to normal, not only physically but also mentally and work wise.
Venting time for Day 10: At this point or day 10 of being in the withdrawal process, this is what I was thinking.
"Since I had tapered so much and for so long, I expected or felt like I WAS OWED a very easy way out. Hey, I have been off all opiates for almost 3 years, I changed my life, I f*****g did my time, my taper and I changed my WHOLE F***ING LIFE! I DID THIS ON MY OWN, I DECIDED TO GET CLEAN WITH OUT FORCE, WITH OUT SOME LINGERING CONSEQUENCE that if I didn't get clean something would happen. I changed my life cause I WANTED TO! I don't owe anyone or have to pay up for anything, I have done my time...I DESERVE a free ride...." I wasn't talking to God, the Easter bunny or some fat clay pot dude... I was yelling at my past, the person I was, the choices I made. That person is still a part of me and either way, both of us co-signed on this "36 month loan" willingly.... Got to pay up sometime hu? My time was up. It's either "Pay up or keep charging", I opted to pay up.
Keep in mind the effects that suboxone (an antagonist) and agonist opiates themselves have on the brain when it comes time to face the problem. It's like the IRS and worse...They don't seem to care about time, excuses or circumstances; one way or another you're going to have to pay up. New phrase: Death, Taxes and then there are Opiates.
(Day 10 night time) Sleep was the same. Light sleep but what was pissing me off now is that I had felt like REALLY ok a couple times for maybe 30 minutes here or 45 minutes there. It was now just a tease. Regular opiates, from my experience don't do this as I have said. When you jump out of the plane with straight opiates you don't have a parachute and you're gonna hit the rocks hard. When you jump with suboxone you have a few positive options.
#1: You get to pull the cord at 25′ off the deck
#2: You have time at least to think about what you are going to do...
#3: That you get to pull a cord at all.
Still, I am not taking anything back I have said, it was still, in retrospect 90 Xs easier or let me put it this way....smoother than the hard crash off regular opiates where Hell feels like a resort. I'm just bitching and explaining what "I" went through...
16) Day 11: Thursday: The day was chaotic, things had to get done, I still felt the same though, confused, dizzy, anxiety, mentally and physically tired but unfortunately "tough shit" things had to get handled. So with an overstressed day, the lack of sleep, something was going to break and at Day 11, sure as hell isn't gonna be me. I thought at this point "Worse case scenario, Day 15 or 16 would be better, so only a few more days".
Thursday evening: Going thru my e-mails while my 4yr old son was in the hospital and while I had been at the hospital for 2 whole days (while feeling like shit and feeling confused). I had taken a small break from at least 3 of the 5 w/d feelings by staying busy and having to handle at the least 7 out of 10 things I had to do work wise to to keep my house; it was now 7pm at night. I was though still working at 110mph cause I had to... and the stress level I was at was still way high when...something came to my attention in a very subtle way.
About 30 minutes had passed while in this unusual work mode and I just realized something, the gun (w/d feelings) was NOT at my forehead anymore; I couldn't see it or feel it. I didn't have the anxiety or that threat in my face or feeling that any minute I would start feeling really shitty again. Being in a crowded environment at the time, with family and staff around (I was working on my laptop so it was pretty mellow) I literally looked left... and then right... and I mean this literally. I was thinking any second the gun is going to go off or the situation of 3 bullets and hearing "MEOW, MEOW" like from the movie the Deer Hunter was going to be the threat and anxiety that had been there the past 11-12+ days. I let myself relax, I let my muscles relax and I "figuratively" pulled the trigger and thought about what withdrawal symptoms I should be feeling... Just thinking that I felt like I had a 50/50 chance of the gun going off.... I heard a click. They seemed to be gone... (I was still not out of the woods or in the clear... I was still foggy but not really feeling that hard crappy feeling).
Thursday night: I was burnt out. Holy s**t I actually felt wiped out without feeling drained out. There was actually conversations going on between two old friends in my head, Officer Neuron and Lt. Receptor were talking and seemed to be having a beer. It's like 2 old friends that hadn't seen each other due to a falling out and now were shooting the shit and patching things up. I went home, and fell asleep EASY. This was the first heavy sleep I had in a week or more. Keep in mind I was always drained, but sleep at night was just impossible.
17) (Day 12) Friday: Woke up early that morning and I woke up tired. That was a big deal cause feeling tired from waking up was a big difference from being tired from lack of sleep. It's then that I realized I might be in the clear. By about 11am or so I realized I got a Green light on day 12 (not 100% but enough that I could start to move on). Mentally / physically I was at 90%, I still had a slight sourness in my shoulders but nothing that I cared about or that bugged me to the point that I couldn't concentrate on things.
I still felt around 90% but it's a hell of alot better than having felt at like 80%-85% and overall mentally feeling like I was regressing or deteriorating by 5% everyday. So Day 12 was for me the end of this s**tty ordeal (to a certain degree). I can say now of course that looking back on it, I don't think it was that bad. Again, most of all the stuff I posted up here was from my notes / journal I kept. It kind of helps to keep one and check it to see your progress day to day.....I didn't go over mine though or check my progress... I just kept notes. I was just thinking common sense wise especially if you have to go thru w/d's on your own (either way even if you have support, you really are going at it alone); it' just s a good idea to see your progress so you have some kind of support even if it's your own.
I didn't feel 100% till day 25... Listen, what I mean by this is that at day 25, I felt back to normal...Kind of.... To elaborate on this; it's hard to feel 100% after years of opiate dependence even if suboxone is an antagonist instead of an agonist. You can use these terms but these words don't mean shit to your f-ing brain...all your brain knows is that "the opiate bliss was there and now it's gone"....and big terms, definitions and so on are.....just words to us...but they don't mean shit to our minds... Our brains function on what it feels is normal or how our choices that WE have made have influenced how it thinks it should be working.
Suboxone can be a great tool so you can take a break from your drug of choice, from the PIECE OF SHIT PEOPLE that may have influenced your life...from the DOCTORS that push the oxy's, vics, percs, fentanyl etc for just stupid reasons "You got a headache, here is an 80mg Oxy, you'll feel much better and so will my wallet"...from the personal CHOICES you made if you got on this rollercoaster willingly or not.... Maybe something happened though where if you had to take them cause of a real medical issue, they (the doctors) either keep you on them, which is a majority of the cases due to commission, misinformation and or they yank you off them after the cow has been milked cause they don't want their DOPE sales license cancelled.... Suboxone can get you back on track ...
The above paragraph sounds like a f***ing commercial BUT, just so you know, I don't represent the manufactures of suboxone. I lose money on this site, but since I get so many incredible emails and "thank you's"... I keep stepping this site up and will continue to do so. I only hope that this site gives you just that..."hope".
Brian
info@suboxonetaper.com
Comments (631)
Day 9 of 8mg and it’s AOK!
Detroit,,Your doing GREAT man!! All this too will pass,,as you already know. Just keep it slow and low,,,
Awesome job “DETERMINED” and “Mia”. I would love to be in either of your positions right now. So as lousy as you may be feeling at times, just remember, it could be a hell of a lot worse. Every single day past day 1 is a huge accomplishment and as we all know, very difficult to get to. Both of you have made it to or beyond the point that us Sub users dread going through. I know it’s no cakewalk once you get past the physical W/Ds, but let’s face it, the full blown physical W/Ds are what keeps most people from kicking Sub in the first place.
I’m now at .15mg per dose (twice per day), down from .25mg per dose last week. I’m dealing with some mild symptoms, such as some insomnia, chills, sweats, etc…, but they’re tolerable and hopefully will just minimize what I have to deal with when I kick it completely. Not sure when I’m jumping off, but at the pace I’m going, it should be sometime next month. I can’t wait to be one of those on this forum like you guys, in which I can say “I kicked it 30 or 60 days ago and I feel 10x better than I have in a long time”.
Day 21 for me today … its been a journey of hell and still isn’t over ill b glad to feel ok again … what I mean about that is I still feel weak and tiered all the time … im a high energy person will ocd and im.normally cleaning or ALWAYS doing something and I hate that im.not at that potential yet! Other than that I feel great I have a little back pain I had b4 opoids and im.mentally emotional now which i lacked on.subs and opoids. I hope u all the neat
MIA,, Everybody is built different. Yeah kicking dope on your own is pure utter hell. And yes i too have done it 1000 times too. I want to say , how proud i am of yr 8th day sub free. Did not intend to disrespect anyone for using subs to kick. I just have a real thing for the feds. I started dope in 1971,, While in a war that was a total lie to our country. Big drug companies invented this stuff ,then backed by the federal gov. Yeah its ok for the junkies to take ,,keeps them from falling out on the streets of our fine country,keeps them from clogging upour over priced er hospitals,,Now we can even cutback on supporting drug re-habs. Lets just let them stay on it forever,,maybe even bring the crime rate down!!HELL ITS A MIRACLE!!! No one will or can convince me that there is any thing good about subs,,sorry not buying into the medical communities wonderful contribution to the addiction problem in the good ol USA!!To those out there who have used subs and broke free from there chains ,,I respect you all for yr hard work and a well done ,,,ans for the poor souls trapped by the addiction of subs ,,my heart goes out to you!! Please try and taper down and quit that poison,,,who knows what the real long term effects of subs are?!? At the same time try and stay away from the poppy too ,,,Just ask the man with the golden arm?!?!?! God speed all…
Well today, day 8, had me sleeping til 430 pm. Hellelujah! I was very afraid to, but my bf gave me some teeny tiny Adavan. I took two and eventially fell asleep. I even had reasonable dreams, not the zero sleep/ or insane dreams I’d been having.
Still feel like arse however…just very weak and rather grumpy. I want everyone to get out. of my way and, ironically, to NOT ask me how I am faring.
Suboxone certainly helped me change my life for the better. I still have 22 of the 8mg filmstrips and its not been an issue worrying I’ll take one. Now back on Oxys wow, this far into detox I’d be flipping my bed over or searching under the wardrobe for any pill or crumb! Today its different…I know I can live without drugs and its just easier not to bother with them. Some people will never get off Subs (my sister)…but for myself at least it was the lifestyle changes, changing who I knew, and dealing with some deep personal issues…that’s the real change that has me becoming free.
FYI I set off taking two 8mg/day, but it was quite expensive so I dropped to 1/day after perhaps 6 months. After another six months I went to 1/2 an 8mg per day and stopped dividing the dose for whenever I felt I needed it. That was a big change because on pills and other drugs I got this instant need to do more, so I was getting high all day long every 30 min or hour. Dropping that cycle to once/day in the morning was the key to breaking that desire to constantly use.
Perhaps 7 months ago I became tired of NEEDING anything so badly…so I began a really half-arsed taper. It wasn’t a olan, I just took less and less as I felt like it. Toward the end I was making a single 8mg film last 10 days ( reco the film tabs since ta can snip them with scissors to very small doses). Finally I have a surgery a few months away and I’ll be damned if I risked anything due to my suboxone need…so I up and quit and its been rather easy to keep away from it.
What I’m saying is as someone who’s been in jail , rehab, extreme DT’s, getting clean, and then **countlesssssss** relapses, the best thing I think we can do is sort our lives out and address issues….toss those friends who may be alright, but around whom temptation lurks. Suboxone gave me a chance to learn to live without all that rubbish, and ya I wish I’d overcome the oxy DT’s straight away to begin with….but I’d been there a hundres times amd it didn’t work for me.
I am in total love with your perspective and willingness to share. Thank you doesn’t seem to say what my head wants to right now. I want to find the right words to show my sincere appreciation for what you have done, alas the fog has crept in, over, and has, blanketed my brain at the moment.
DETROIT,, You’ll be fine man .You know the drill,since you’ve been thru it b4! Good Luck dude and I wish you the best!!
Hey Anon, thx for the input. I hear ya about not making the mistake of jumping too soon. I have no illusions about how powerful this stuff is, so I know that it’s best to get down to the absolute lowest dosage possible (such as the .0625 like you suggested). Today was rougher for me than previous days, but it encouraged me rather than discouraged me. I feel like instead of it all hitting me in the end, I’m gradually getting used to more & more of my receptors being opiate free, which is pretty much the case throughout one’s taper, but definitely the most noticeable when down to very low doses. If I do it right and be patient, hopefully the final step will be comparable to how it’s been for you thus far.
Your story is extremely encouraging! I’ve actually been there once before so I know what to expect when I kick Sub for good. After beating it about 5 years ago, I got f’ing stupid and cocky, thinking “man, it wasn’t so bad and this time I know to be smarter, so one Vicodin isn’t going to hurt” (after being clean from Sub for about 2-3 months). I’m still paying for that one POS Vicodin 5 years later, which obviously led to a relapse. I’m confident that there is a zero % chance I’ll ever recreationally touch an opiate again once I kick Sub. The 5 years I’ve spent on Sub because of that dumb slip up will remain in the forefront of my mind for the rest of my life and I simply won’t let myself make that mistake again.
BTW, I actually tried a Clonidine when I quit Sub 5 years ago, but only took it once because it made my already fatigued body even worse (and not in a good way). I know some people swear by it, but for me it wasn’t helpful. I’ll have a few Xanax & Ambiens ready for when I kick it. I know those need to be used with caution (esp Xanax), so I’ll only be using them when needed for sleep for up to a week-ish.
MIA,,, I dont know what you kicked at but yr not alone. I didnt have the emotion train like alot of people. I may just be wired different ,,i dont know. The main thing is that you made it ,and got off this lousy stuff. Now its just gonna be time for yr brain to re-wire ,and it will in time. These sub are probably the most powerful synthetic drug made from mankind ! Also who really knows what the long term effects of this shit is? This is where i disagree with alot of people about how GREAT this stuff is to kick dope,,including Brian who wrote this site. My personnel advice to any body who wants to kick dope ,,,is to stay the HELL away from subs. Take the week beating from dope in detox and stay the fuck away from subs. I took it from my Dr. without doing my homework ! Worst mistake i ever made in my life .He didnt know how to r/x the shit and then yrn stuck . This shit is not made to taper off of. I good go on and on about how nasty this shit is and what it does to yr body. But guess whos making the most $ out of all this. Its a REAL BATTLE TO GET OFF THIS SHIT !! But can be done ,, Then the residual effects take hold,,which can last for years?!? My only suggestion to anybody hooked on this pathetic shit is to taper down as far as maybe .0625 then start skipping days. Like i said anybody who thinks this shit is a good tool to kick dope, is a fool and i do know alot of people were tricked into thinking this is some kind of miracle drug !! Guess what,,its not ,yr just trading drug for drug!! I pray for everyone who has been trapped into these subs and also pray thet you can taper properly down low enough to get the hell away from this shit!! Everybody still on subs ,,just take it down as low as you can go and pray. Dont beleive in all the hype and theatricals of this page. AND DONT THINK TO KICK AT .25MGS YOU WILL FEEL THE PAIN!!!! Good detox everyone!!!!!
Day 7 for me…woke feeling fine, then took a nap and awoke feeling terrible. This up and down is tough, but its bearable. I’m crying for no apparent reason…just after being on subox 2 1/2 years this familiar feeling of WD has stirred heaps of past emotions. I found this site hoping to have a better understanding of what was going on, and now I know this uo down feel fine-feel shitty cycle is normal, and it isnt like regular opiate WD’s. My problem is I fear people may think I am being dramatic because one hour I’ll say I’m alright, then a couple hours later I’m shaking and in dt’s. This site has really let me know I’m not crazy and this is a normal part of quitting soboxone. Thank u so much!!
Heh Detroit,, Man I jumped on march 19. Just a suggestion,or i will just say how i did it. Once i hit .25 ,1 dose a day, I then dropped 33% to .125 a day for 4 days,,then dropped to .0625 for 4 days ,,then skip 1 day then dose again then skip 2 days then dose then skip 3 days then dose . Then i jumped. If you can get your hands on some clonidine 0.1mgs from doc Blood press. medicine. Will help big time for anxiety,and if you can get some valium that too will help take the edge off and help with your sleep. You will also probably need something for diarreha. When i took it down this low i walked away like a champ. Kicked the sheets around a couple of nights,,but that was it. It just didnt linger like it does for most people for me ,,and i think the reason for that ,is that i was VERY PATIENT and took it down to the end. I see too many people jump too soon at too high of dose ,,then end up with flu like symptoms for weeks. You got to remember man this subutex is some really nasty shit . Gets all down in your bone and muscle tissue. Also with subs less is actually more. It metabolizes into pure mophine at the low doses. 1mg of sub = 40mg of morphine or 1 mg of sub = 15 mg of methodone.Just dont want to see you kick too soon and go thru weeks of bullshit not to mention the depression it can cause. Everybody ,including this pages author says YOU WILL HAVE WDS NO MATTER WHAT well guess what ,, Some people are wrong or just get in too big of a hurry. Keep it low and slow man and GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!
Thx Scott! I am indeed at .25 mg twice per day now and feeling good about it (especially compared to how I thought I’d be feeling when on this low of a dosage). I’ll probably go even lower in another week or two, such as to about .15 mg twice per day. Then after a week or two at that, I may just take the leap and deal with it. I just have to make sure I’m prepared with work & stuff because I know I won’t be able to do much work, etc… for a good 10-14 days. I can’t sit at a cpu when I’m going through W/D because of the antsy-ness/fatigue/anxiety/etc…
On a side note, for those of you working on reducing your dosage… When I was at a steady 4+ mg per day, I always felt like reducing was too hard and I didn’t want to deal with it. The truth is, in hindsight, it was a lot easier than I assumed it would be. What scared me was that initial burst of W/D feeling you get when you reduce your dosage. I would get a few chills, sweats, etc… and think to myself “uh oh, it’s about to get really bad so let me pop another 1/2mg or 1mg to prevent it”. What I came to find out was that when I pushed myself through that initial burst of minor W/D feelings, it never really got worse than that. It would actually got better within a day or two and not worse. So don’t get discouraged if you feel like sh*t a day or two after reducing your dosage, it never lasted long for me and always got better within a day or so.
Throughout my taper, there was only 1 or 2 times that I had to “cheat” by popping an extra few crums in between doses, but it didn’t set me back or ruin my taper.
Good Job D it only gets better so keep fighten..the worst is over.
Day 14-I now still sluggish but no wds anymore …. I have a severe case of insomnia I havent slept in 3 damn days ! I take melatonin and clonidine b4 bed and still stair at the fkn ceiling I’ve literally called my doc 6I times since this has started and he will not call me back! Anxiety level extremely fkn high which scares the shit outta me…. my head is the biggest thing bothering me I thinkn if I could rest it would help me think more clearly …..who knows im a mental case today hopefully gets better soon
DetroitDude- Its great to hear your experience and hopefully this will help you and someone else. Im not familiar with subutex, but was taking suboxone for 3+ years. I tried taking one dose in the morning but by mid-afternoon I was trembling. I personally had to take 2 doses per day, one in the morning, and one in the afternoon. That seemed to keep me in the clear. My guess is that the first dose being so much compared to the second dose is what hurt you the most. That was in the past though correct? Your taking .25mg 2x a day? I would say you are ready to jump. The sweats and chills is from withdrawal its the smaller doses that are keeping you from being in an all out war with the subs. That’s awesome, and if you should decide to jump, I think you will be ready.
Hey all, I’ve been an on & off lurker for a while and figured I would finally chime in. I could write a friggin’ book depending on how detailed I want to get, but I’ll just give a gist of my situation for now (I can go into more detail later if anybody would like, as I know it is helpful for us to hear others’ stories, situations, opinions, etc…).
I’ve been on Sub for almost 4 and 1/2 years now. Like many others, I started off around 8mg/day and worked my way down to roughly 4mg/day, which I had stayed at on or around for several years. About 6 months ago I switched from Suboxone to Subutex because I had read that the Naloxone in Suboxone can be the cause of headaches, which I’d been consistently getting since getting on Sub. The headaches have indeed improved, though I do still get them. I just get them less often now and they’re not as bad (for instance, I used to take 2 Excedrine to kill a headache and now I’ll take 1).
Aside from the headaches, some other negative effects of Sub are lack of interest in going out, doing things, seeing/talking to people, etc… I’ve read about other people experiencing this from Sub too, but FYI, with me it really didn’t get too noticeable until I had been on Sub for about 1-2 years. It has also hindered my sex drive (to put it lightly).
So for quite a while now, I’ve just been wanting off this stuff. It’s time and I’m ready to move on with my life, get out there & start enjoying life again, etc… About 5-6 months ago I consciously began reducing my dosage. At the time, I had crept up to 5mg/day, so I started by going back down to 4mg (2 doses per day about 12 hours apart). I worked my way down about 1/4 or 1/3 of a MG every couple-few weeks. Since I have to break up a 2MG generic Subutex, I’m always guessing how much I’m taking, but I can get it pretty close to accurate.
Fast forward several months to today… The last 2 days I’ve taken about .5MG per day (2 doses of .25MG). Prior to that I was taking doses of about .4MG. When the doses get down this small, it becomes more difficult to be accurate, so part of it is still a guessing game. I have noticed some more chills, goose bumps, minor sweating, etc… a few hours before each dose, but other than that, it hasn’t been too bad. I don’t really have a mapped out game plan. I just figure I’ll get as low as possible then make the jump when the time is right.
A couple of things to note that may be of interest to other Sub users…
Even when I was at 5MG/day, I would still get some minor chills, sweats, etc… within 2-3 hours of each dose. One time to test things out, I took 4MG at the start of my day and 1MG at the end of my day. 12 hours after taking that 4MG dose, sure enough, I got some minor chills, sweats, etc… in anticipation of that 2nd daily dose. That proved to me that it isn’t a lack of Sub causing the discomfort, rather it’s the habit of my body expecting it’s 2 daily doses.
The other thing is that I have a very difficult time if I try to go to 1 dose per day instead of 2. As mentioned above, even if I flood my body with 4MG to start my day, going 24 hours without another dose is extremely difficult. I know that with my current doses getting so low, the next logical step will be to dose once per day instead of 2, but that will undoubtedly be my biggest challenge yet. Getting down to .5MG per day has been a cakewalk compared to how difficult I thought it was going to be (i.e. a year ago if you told me I would be taking .5MG per day for my maintenance, I would have said “no way, it would probably be hell getting there”).
If anybody has any input or feedback about going from multiple doses per day to 1, I would love to hear about it. Were you initially like me, where you felt that 2 doses per day was too difficult? Did you use any specific methods or time frames, such as by gradually doing it (i.e. 14 hours, then 16 hours, then 18 hours, etc…)?
I hope my story helps somebody and I’ll be happy to assist anyway I can. Sometimes all we need is another person reminding us that it can be done because you or I did it.
Day 2 of 12 at 8mg of done…feeling fine…hope it goes this easy all the way!
Thats awesome Determined, it’s like you get your senses back! Smelling detergants and freshly cut grass, wtf huh? I know for me that was one thing I was surprised the most about. Well, I just wanted to congradulate you on day 11, you are their don’t turn back!! For me, Im on day 24 and I feel so much better. I haven’t even checked this site for the last few days because I have been trying to stay busy and not think about it. Anyway, keep up the hard work. God Bless -S
I feel things I have not felt in years pain being he most obvious but hey if this makes my life more clear an gives me what I’ve wanted since the day I realizes I had a problem and was addicted to opoids then im game ill feel pain ill feel emotions I want it all! So excited to start over!
Day 11I for me today! I woke feeling the best I have yet! Extremely excited for the days to come! Still nauseous and jittery but I feel ok! Hopefully im halfway thru this shit!
Again, almost needed a Poise® pad.
Wish i had someone in my life that f#$&ing understood half as much as Brian( more like reverse the ia)
Hugs again. Stay strong everyone.
- Faith from Seattle
Depression is not something that I am too familiar with, but definitely dealing with now coming off the subs. I quit oxy’s cold turkey a few years ago and remember this feeling, which seems to last a long time (even when all the withdrawals are gone). I actually started taking sam-e about a week ago to help with this. The first couple days I felt a little weird, but now I truly believe it has been helping. The other factors of quitting that has been effecting me the most, is insomnia and fatigue. I slept 4 hours last night on my own without any meds to help, and seriously had one eye open. Anyway, enough of the complaining..Im on day 22 and going into week 4! Oh, and just something to maybe help you taper.. I used my weekends for the days to cut back, and I would try to stay at that dose throughout the week. Yea, the weekend kind of sucked, but you don’t have to taper as fast as I did. (I cut back 1mg per week). I admit, there were times that I needed just a little bit more and would cheat, but I stayed within my goal and it worked. And if the taper is too hard, try not taking any, that will make the taper process seem easier;)
Hey Scott- I hope it is ok to ask you this because I think one thing a lot of us who use and are trying to taper off the subs for is depression- are you feeling “depression” I know that souns stupid to ask but do you feel that you might hadle everything better if you were on subs? Not that I think you should take subs- I think it is AWESOME you made it off and on with life- I just read so many posts about feeling depressed on subs- off subs and I wonder how it effects us all after. One of the posts I read on another one of Brian’s sites here mentioned taking Sam-E and was just wondering if you thought of it- a supplement..I’m just tired of taking anything- I took a big chunk out of my suboxone use- from 24 mgs- to 16 I have a long way to go and I haven’t taken any big steps lately- I want to and I don’t know why I haven’t tapered more…I uess I’m not mentally ready but in many ways I am- I know it is because i’m scared of the unknown…wthe wds- what I will do when I’m presented with an option to take something- I don’t know..I just check this site out all the time to help me feel like I’m not alone- others have made it through… you guys are the inspiration to many of us out here….gopgirl- I wish I could go to sleep to and wake up and be done- sometimes I wish I would just stuck out the wds of the pills- for some reason this is harder- maybe because it is too easy to get a refill from my doc- one day I ‘ll get the courage to do it- my husband has been really pressuring me to stop taking the subs so I want to – he has stuck by me through all the ups and downs of pills so I just want to end it and be back to myself……and hopefully learn to live without anything but a drink now and then- that’s one thing I don’t really do anymore drink- suboxone doesn’t make me want to drink!ok sorry I’m rambling! Good job
Scott…I am sure it doesn’t feel like it now but I think you having a job that is both physically and mentally demanding is a good thing. While you are at work don’t lose focus on your job just don’t let any other thought in your mind. That is what I do no matter what I am doing. It is the time that I am driving that my mind starts playing with me. I always try and have something to do…even if it’s just cleaning the kitchen. It keeps my mind occupied and then I have a spotless kitchen. I do not know your life style so I am not sure about the following but you need to go out with friends and or family…start being social again and these need to be non drug using friends….if you don’t have any, start making some. You have to live again~One thing I hated when I was taking pills….None of my friends used because I had no one to get anything from….but now I am thankful for that. Keep hanging in there Scott….I know you will succeed and live a better and LONGER life for it.
Thanks gopgirl, your words of encouragement are especially needed. I honestly can’t believe Ive made it 19 days already. It seems like the days are going by faster now. Really work on that taper, that is one thing i regret not taking the time to do. I have done it in the past, but I didn’t realize I was actually going to detox until about 3 weeks prior to my quit day. It wasnt until my friends death, and a few other events that just pushed the situation. I guess its what I needed. But, Im almost positive that it would have made my detox and post detox much faster and easier. I still am having a hard time for as far as I am. Im definitely not a puss, but work is the worst. I didn’t even think I was gonna make it today. Idk if its my job, but what I do is very physically and mentally demanding. Its a struggle for sure. For something positive, I have started writing music again. The emotion of music can be very overwhelming at times. I have been listening to all the songs I wrote in the past and it has given me some hope as to maybe I could do something with it this time. Anyway, thanks again.
Hey Scott~I am so very sorry to hear about your friend. A lot of people think they can not live a normal life after addiction and I guess they think they have no other choices. There are always choices and you just have to have the power and will to make the right ones. I really hope things get better for you in your life. All you can do is keep moving forward. A step in the right direction is your only path now. You have gotten past the hard part now all you can do is keep going, as there is no turning back. Keep your mind on the positive. Keep working on the things in your life that “are in the toilet”….that’s all you can do. :-)
Today is day 18 for me. I feel much better but now kind of dealing with the icky feeling of getting back into routine. Work was miserable yesterday but I pulled through. I try to keep my blinders on and only think that this will get better and soon. Its all I have to hold on to, the rest of my life is in the toilet right now..but I want to make it right. Plus one of my good friends killed himself last month dealing with addiction and so forth. So I think to myself that would be the easy way out, and that Im tough I can do this. I regret not tapering and highly recommend it to anyone out there. I went from 4mg per day to 2mg in just 2 weeks. And then stopped completely. I have tapered in the past to 1mg and that was much easier. I just didn’t plan accordingly to stick it through. This time however..I am done. Thanks for commenting this is all the support I get- S
Hi Scott! Thank you~I took your advise and got the Clonidine from my doctor today so I will have it for when I stop completely. Lisinipril is the BP med he put me on last week when it got so high but I didn’t take it for the past few days because it got down to 100/50. Sometimes I wish I could just get in bed, fall asleep for three weeks straight and wake up to it all being behind me. I assume you have quit Scott…that is awesome. You must be very proud of yourself. Thank you again~! Have a great day!
gopgirl, I too had high blood pressure while on the subs. Take Lisiniprol and Atenenol. When you taper down your bp will go up, and when you stop altogether it will rise to what seems near death, mine to stage 2. Ask your doc for clonadine when you jump, it helps with bp, being cold, rls, and sweats. Check it often, but don’t freak out it will get better as you get off the subs. Goodluck
Thanks TJJ you are very helpful to these people on here and I want you to know that I and everyone else is grateful for it too!! I am going to stop taking these subs if I get down to licking the pill LOL….I am still at 4mg now and I think I am going to stay here until next Thursday and then go down to 2. I have had some issues with my blood pressure. Normally it is fine…but it got really high and my dr put me on some BP meds…well then it got dangerously low so I am just monitoring it for now. So far today everything has been stable. Just trying to keep it that way. Everyone stay strong and try to have a peaceful day~!