Suboxone Withdrawal / Taper 101
I Beat Suboxone / Opiate Addiction! My Suboxone Taper...
I have detoxed or gone through the hell-ish withdrawal off of "Pain Killers / Opiates" 3 times. My last and final time (which was my 4th) was off the suboxone after being on it for 2 yrs and about 9 months... Just some background so you know I'm not some novice putting my 2 cents in... Now, straight to what you are here for; some info on what an experience might be like for you coming off the sub / (suboxone).
My 6 Month Suboxone Taper:
1) During 2 yrs and about 9 months on suboxone I went from 16 mg (being at 16mg daily for that time) to 8 mg pretty quick with really no problems, really zero problems. This was not planned exactly. I just didn't need that much...I felt... and I had no physical / sick feeling during this quick drop. Stayed at 8 mg for about 1 1/2 years and then went from 8 mg to 4 mg in a couple months. NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.... BUT AGAIN I TOOK "MY" time.
2) In a 6 month period I went from 4 mg to 3 mg.. I then tapered to 2 mg in a few months. I did this and adjusted from 2 mg to 3 mg down to 1 mg....back and forth till I felt right at 2 mg...I did the taper, I went at my pace... I didn't let anyone else "push me" or tell me what the fuck to do. The final month or so I went from 2 mg to 1 mg then to .50..... I only felt a little shady when I dropped big amounts; like when I would drop from 3 mg to 1 mg to see how it would feel. I suggest you don't do this. You don't feel it right away, you feel it 3 days later... It's not bad though...you can adjust and do a 25 minute quick fix with a chip off your suboxone pill to make you feel better. It's funny how the "quick fix" is...; it is though a pain in the ass when it comes time to the ultimate repair work...ie. when you have to take the jump and get off the opiates or suboxone.
*Quick note* 90% of what I have written below regarding my taper process and what I went through while coming off the sub was from my notes / journal during my taper / withdrawal from the sub... I have edited only a little bit because I now have a clearer head and some of the thoughts I had when writing this were blurred. The following is what I went thru... Your taper and withdrawal process might go smoother or worse. Talk with your doctor first, if you can. If you have a stubborn or ignorant doctor, get a new Doctor before you taper or even if you just want to continue on suboxone.
One BIG point, just from my opinion. There is nothing wrong with long term suboxone treatment or even lifelong treatment with suboxone; again that's just my opinion... I just suggest that you should only quit if you feel like you have changed YOUR life SO much that, the person you were, is no longer alive.....or what I mean, your old self that was using is gone mentally.
SO....
3) Ok, D-Day minus 7: I went from .50 mg to .25 mg and actually less, the rest went in the toilet and I had alot of suboxone left. I suggest getting a $1.99 7 day pill box for your taper (that's what my girlfriend did for me). Sounds fucking lame but it helps you keep track of the dosage / suboxone taper process so you don't cheat (you'll only be fucking yourself if you cheat and it'll just take longer). It's just human nature to make yourself "feel better" and subconsciously you'll take "just a tiny bit more" and that will F**K things up. I am not a pro at the taper thing, I f***ed up a bunch of times; went up down, back and forth etc. Will power helped but my girlfriend (at the time) helped me alot by breaking the sub up and putting them in the daily pill reminder. Support is great but ultimately it's all the decision that you make for yourself in the end. I did feel a little "different" but not uncomfortable at .25 mg but I was ok. I think it was more mental than anything at this point.
4) Last .25mg at 8am on a Sunday morning. Went all day with NO PROBLEMS, slept fine and even had a steak that night for dinner.
5) (First +24hours) Monday Day: Morning...woke up fine, nervous though like I thought literally I would wake up with Death standing in the corner. Went about Monday ok. By the afternoon I was feeling pretty good, Cocky even.."Yeah F*** everything I read online, this is f**cking easy, my taper worked"!!!... Monday Night, actually slept ok.... Nervous still but ambien works great (I had written on my original site that Ambien CR "could or probably" would work better, NOPE, my bad....Bull Shit advice on my part!. Regular ambien kicks your ass right away and puts you right to sleep and doesn't "slowly" release like Ambien CR does; I suggest regular ambien). An additional piece of advice and you can take it or leave it. I would put the regular ambien in my mouth, but then bite it in two. For me it seemed to work faster and when you feel bad...every minute seems to count. Sleep is important but, you have to get up during the day and walk, jog, stay active so as you can get this shit out of your system. Staying active stimulates the natural chemicals that our brains use to produce natural opiates in our system...and with the substitute opiates being gone...it's best to give this process a kick in the ass. When you feel like shit, ...the worst of the worst... get up and walk even if it's just around the room. Next step, walk outside, then jog, then get pissed and fight this fucking nightmare off. Trust me, it helps.... it will hurt though both physically / mentally... it's your best option and speeds up the process.
6) (Day 2) Tuesday: Morning...Uh...Thought I was ok, I was very optimistic. Lost some speed and felt a little slow. Tuesday mid afternoon felt like I was weighted down. Uh oh... This is where I am suppose to write about how day 3 was all out Thermo Nuclear War, The Cuban Missile Crisis Revisited and or then the 7th Seal of The Bible was opened and GOD said unto me "I shall let loose many apocalyptic pigeons and they shall shit all over your custom chopper...." and God smiled and it was ALL GOOD.... Well... Let's talk about day 3.
7) (Day 3 early am) Wednesday: Day 3 is where I should now be telling you that the 72 hour half life, once it's up is not that bad. Ok, sorry, just telling you the truth. The missiles launched...Castro, Khrushchev, Kennedy never worked things out and the pigeons did shit on my chopper. I woke up Wednesday morning around 3am or so and my girlfriend was talking to me, I freaked out I guess. I was crying, shaking, sweating...legs were all jumping crazy style... I was in pretty bad shape. Killed the situation though and went into negotiations with another ambien and broke out the xanax or the big guns to suppress the living nightmare. (suggestion: If you got xanax (from a Doctor), take them (not to much or don't take them if you have had some addiction issues with xanax / benzos), don't take them forever also, just during this whole withdrawal process; so don't stress about the f***ing posts on how you can get hooked on them; I mean come on (as long as you have not had issues with xanax), we're talking about a 2-3 week time frame here). 35 minutes later I was asleep and slept ok. Jumping off of regular opiates, this would have never happened, being able to sleep so quickly even with the help of ambien and xanax would have been impossible.
8) (Day 3 continued) Wednesday continued: Morning, woke up like I had the flu and just the flu. No flu X's 100, no crawly crazy feeling...surprisingly and thinking about it now; the cold sweats were not that bad either but I did get them. I did have restless legs so I just went with it. It wasn't out of control, it just bugged. . Another thing, I was and had been eating even though I was forcing it.
(Day 3 continued) Wednesday Mid-Day: Not good, same feeling, energy now going bankrupt. Split town Wednesday night to a small place outside of town and was there from then on out, or thru the somewhat ruff-stuff.
(Day 3 continued) Wednesday night: Slept ok, took 1 ambien and 1 (one) 2 mg xanax before bed.
9) (Day 4) Thursday: Energy was gone, did ZERO except watch "suspenseful" movies to keep my mind occupied during just miserable, but bare-able conditions, bare-able to a degree I would say, still f-ing sucked. Went for a quick walk that night and felt ok during that time. No major stomach problems though, so laying around was not a major hassle. Let me add, the stomach issues were not a "zero issue" but they were not horrible like coming off of oxy, vics or a full agonist.
10) (Day 5) Friday: Felt ok actually when I woke up..., still shitty but "ok" for most of the day. Went for like 5 walks and mixed it up with very short jogs (like 100 yards) throughout the whole day. I was able to do this due to positive thinking though along with being angry about having to go thru this whole deal...now looking back on it.
Walking or just doing anything physical; this made the feeling or withdrawal symptoms go away fast for a short period of time though. Even when you feel like you have zero energy to do anything; you just have to do it! Trust me, it'll help when it comes night time / sleeping. Any tiny bit of help is better than nothing, hu? You also have to force yourself to eat. I did eat and the problems that usually follow with full blown opiates were mild but still not good. The stomach issues I had with full opiate agonist withdrawals is what I really hated, everything just going thru you and in turn this makes you so weak. The Suboxone, even after almost 3 years on it, didn't give me the hardcore stomach issues I have had before with pills.
This condition of diarrhea dehydrates you and makes the "healing" process take longer cause you are weekend by hunger and basically malnutrition. This is just common f-ing sense...but as we all know; when you have no appetite it's just f-ing tough to think about food. I ate pasta, lots of scrambled eggs, cheese and toast...I know, sounds stupid. Eating this shit would have killed me and gone thru me while detoxing off of full opiate agonists (like pain meds, full opiates etc...). Since I have been thru the real thing 3 other times and knowing how bad it could be; I thought "What can make it any worse so might as well eat as much high protein and high fiber stuff as I can".
I was getting cocky again and stayed this way. If I felt I wasn't hungry... I ate, if I didn't want to walk..., I walked (I sound like Forest Gump?)....and when I thought I felt ok I had a drink (not a good idea and I don't suggest it at all). I drank (alcohol) Friday night and woke up Saturday feeling like I was back to how I felt on Thursday...ok, my bad on my part. Keep in mind you are fighting to keep your body a float a long with trying to keep your mind together and on coarse... so, again....don't mess with anything that can trip you up or that puts you back.
11) (Day 6) Saturday: Relaxed all day, went on my walks, ate, walked...ate... laid around and so on. Energy level still low, confusion, loss of creativity and in addition my anxiety level was running pretty high. Where I was taking my time for my taper / detox to do this was up in the mountains, so there was snow there...it was very cold... I actually was punching snow, like the hard packed shit. I did this cause I thought it would help my brain release some kind of endorphins... Not sure if it really worked, cut my knuckles up pretty good though, but it did get my mind off of how I was feeling (which was like shit) even if it was just for a few minutes. The stupid things we do out of desperation...
12) (Day 7) Sunday: Felt.....nothing. Not good, not bad....just nothing. That is better than feeling like shit I guess. Maybe I did feel like shit but I literally felt like I was in a fog. This part is hard to explain... I was just brain dead it felt like. It did concern me at the time.
13) (Day 8) Monday: woke up 3am wired. Wide awake. Monday was foggy and I was so tired from lack of sleep. Still felt shady like Sunday but now I couldn't sleep at night or during the day. My energy levels were still low. This is what I didn't get. I would be so tired during the day and the previous week I could sleep. Now I was tired all day and come 10:00pm when I wanted to go to bed I couldn't sleep at all, even with ambien.
14) (Day 9) Tuesday: Though I did sleep or had slept kind of, it had been so light that I remember even being in a slight dream state at like 1am and thinking "I am not getting any REM (rapid eye movement) sleep". I am no expert but I do read enough to know that getting a deep good night sleep and being in that REM state is when your body really does the repairing of itself and this is important, obviously. Being at day 9 and with night 7, day 8 and night 8 being the same, I felt like I was leveling out and that I would have to put up with this unfortunate now barely bare-able state for a while.
I could function but I was very jittery, confused, dizzy and when I walked up a flight of stairs, I would get a bouncing motion in my brain. This had not happened before coming off of hard opiates ie. being jittery, wired, fog like confusion and not able to sleep. Keep in mind, hard opiate withdrawals, sleep is questionable....it's like you are so out of it your body shuts down and makes you sleep or when you want to sleep that is when the shear nightmare hits and you are kicking like a mule and paranoia / anxiety is at its peak.
Also, I kept thinking that I was at like day 14 (when I was really at day 9). Keep in mind that the half life of suboxone / buprenorphine is 72 hours and you don't feel "like shit" till day 3 or so. Even though I consciously knew what day I was really at I couldn't break this feeling or thought. Any other opiate / pain med withdrawal lasts a minimum of 11 bad days, or it had for me. Off regular oxy, vics, etc... When you stop regular opiates let's say in the morning, you feel like shit that afternoon... You knew that the w/d's started and that the clock was ticking till you'd relapse or if you hung in there, you could be in the clear in 11 or so days. Off of full blown opiates I would feel shady for 11 or 12 days and bounce back fast after that (with 3 days of feeling a little off my rocker after day 11 or 12)... Don't get me wrong though, suboxone is still the best way to go cause it gives you time to break that "habit" and get your life back to normal. Plus as I'll write about this in another post; the sub detox is more of a pillow effect even though it feels like it lags due to the first 3 days of being in the clear, then it hits you, then it lags or drags on. I would take the suboxone route every time though...much safer.
(Day 9 continued) Tuesday afternoon and evening: After eating good, keeping myself force-ably hydrated and being overly stressed about real life situations; I was getting worn down mentally. I was at this point questioning was this going to go on for weeks? I wondered... "Am I going to be one of those people that I had read about in the "OH SO optimistic forums who took suboxone and that SOMEONE FRIENDS' COUSINS' DOG WHO SPEAKS ONLY ANCIENT LATIN had gone thru 4-8 WEEKS of w/d's before they started feeling even close to ok again due to the LONG half life"? Then you get the following line at the end of these idiots overly negative post..."Oh and by the way....everyone is different though so you might be ok". Wow! Supportive, negative, stupid and totally contradicting. These kind of comments really F**K you up; cause you now are wondering "Shit, am I going to be ok or am I going to go thru hell?...Is there any middle or gray area"? Bottom line for me... I felt like shit, but not like I was in the literal sense of hell like regular opiates... The suboxone w/d's, it just f**king bugged... I felt just so numb and brain dead. I guess I would say at this point I was really wondering "Did I maybe do some damage to my brain"? (This didn't happen though, just telling you what I was thinking and feeling at that time).
15) (Day 10) Wednesday: Woke up Wednesday and am feeling "normal" again, kind of, or so I thought. Feeling numb, no thoughts, zero creativity, didn't want to do anything and if I did I couldn't think of something to do. I was also still dizzy or had this bouncing motion. I want to add this also, not only did I feel my brain bouncing, but I would also visually see a bouncing motion, very bizarre and it did make me nervous.
At this point, I thought I was or should be in the second stage (whatever that means) of coming out of this. Cause of the lack of good sleep, I think or I now know I was suffering from sleep deprivation. Wednesday did not improve, got more tired, edgy, jittery and felt like I was wired on a coffee IV drip nonstop. What the F**K, am I going backwards? It's this back and forth feeling... One day you feel like shit, the next day for a few hours you feel ok... Then it's back to the same shit, of feeling, just that... like shit. Then new things start to show up, confusion...muscle aches. Hey, I want to clear something up. I would not classify them as "muscle aches" it was more like the cross section of my shoulders, my neck and the base of my skull were soar and cold? It was just f-ing annoying.
(Day 10 continued) Wednesday afternoon and night: This was getting ridiculous, almost getting worse. Stomach was somewhat ok though, I felt soar across the top of my shoulders and looking back I had during this whole time. I guess this was the crawly soar feeling from the suboxones' point of view, which I was cool with compared to a full agonist effect / w/d's. At this point of time (Day 10) I just had shit I had to do, that I had to get done and I had to get back to normal, not only physically but also mentally and work wise.
Venting time for Day 10: At this point or day 10 of being in the withdrawal process, this is what I was thinking.
"Since I had tapered so much and for so long, I expected or felt like I WAS OWED a very easy way out. Hey, I have been off all opiates for almost 3 years, I changed my life, I f*****g did my time, my taper and I changed my WHOLE F***ING LIFE! I DID THIS ON MY OWN, I DECIDED TO GET CLEAN WITH OUT FORCE, WITH OUT SOME LINGERING CONSEQUENCE that if I didn't get clean something would happen. I changed my life cause I WANTED TO! I don't owe anyone or have to pay up for anything, I have done my time...I DESERVE a free ride...." I wasn't talking to God, the Easter bunny or some fat clay pot dude... I was yelling at my past, the person I was, the choices I made. That person is still a part of me and either way, both of us co-signed on this "36 month loan" willingly.... Got to pay up sometime hu? My time was up. It's either "Pay up or keep charging", I opted to pay up.
Keep in mind the effects that suboxone (an antagonist) and agonist opiates themselves have on the brain when it comes time to face the problem. It's like the IRS and worse...They don't seem to care about time, excuses or circumstances; one way or another you're going to have to pay up. New phrase: Death, Taxes and then there are Opiates.
(Day 10 night time) Sleep was the same. Light sleep but what was pissing me off now is that I had felt like REALLY ok a couple times for maybe 30 minutes here or 45 minutes there. It was now just a tease. Regular opiates, from my experience don't do this as I have said. When you jump out of the plane with straight opiates you don't have a parachute and you're gonna hit the rocks hard. When you jump with suboxone you have a few positive options.
#1: You get to pull the cord at 25′ off the deck
#2: You have time at least to think about what you are going to do...
#3: That you get to pull a cord at all.
Still, I am not taking anything back I have said, it was still, in retrospect 90 Xs easier or let me put it this way....smoother than the hard crash off regular opiates where Hell feels like a resort. I'm just bitching and explaining what "I" went through...
16) Day 11: Thursday: The day was chaotic, things had to get done, I still felt the same though, confused, dizzy, anxiety, mentally and physically tired but unfortunately "tough shit" things had to get handled. So with an overstressed day, the lack of sleep, something was going to break and at Day 11, sure as hell isn't gonna be me. I thought at this point "Worse case scenario, Day 15 or 16 would be better, so only a few more days".
Thursday evening: Going thru my e-mails while my 4yr old son was in the hospital and while I had been at the hospital for 2 whole days (while feeling like shit and feeling confused). I had taken a small break from at least 3 of the 5 w/d feelings by staying busy and having to handle at the least 7 out of 10 things I had to do work wise to to keep my house; it was now 7pm at night. I was though still working at 110mph cause I had to... and the stress level I was at was still way high when...something came to my attention in a very subtle way.
About 30 minutes had passed while in this unusual work mode and I just realized something, the gun (w/d feelings) was NOT at my forehead anymore; I couldn't see it or feel it. I didn't have the anxiety or that threat in my face or feeling that any minute I would start feeling really shitty again. Being in a crowded environment at the time, with family and staff around (I was working on my laptop so it was pretty mellow) I literally looked left... and then right... and I mean this literally. I was thinking any second the gun is going to go off or the situation of 3 bullets and hearing "MEOW, MEOW" like from the movie the Deer Hunter was going to be the threat and anxiety that had been there the past 11-12+ days. I let myself relax, I let my muscles relax and I "figuratively" pulled the trigger and thought about what withdrawal symptoms I should be feeling... Just thinking that I felt like I had a 50/50 chance of the gun going off.... I heard a click. They seemed to be gone... (I was still not out of the woods or in the clear... I was still foggy but not really feeling that hard crappy feeling).
Thursday night: I was burnt out. Holy s**t I actually felt wiped out without feeling drained out. There was actually conversations going on between two old friends in my head, Officer Neuron and Lt. Receptor were talking and seemed to be having a beer. It's like 2 old friends that hadn't seen each other due to a falling out and now were shooting the shit and patching things up. I went home, and fell asleep EASY. This was the first heavy sleep I had in a week or more. Keep in mind I was always drained, but sleep at night was just impossible.
17) (Day 12) Friday: Woke up early that morning and I woke up tired. That was a big deal cause feeling tired from waking up was a big difference from being tired from lack of sleep. It's then that I realized I might be in the clear. By about 11am or so I realized I got a Green light on day 12 (not 100% but enough that I could start to move on). Mentally / physically I was at 90%, I still had a slight sourness in my shoulders but nothing that I cared about or that bugged me to the point that I couldn't concentrate on things.
I still felt around 90% but it's a hell of alot better than having felt at like 80%-85% and overall mentally feeling like I was regressing or deteriorating by 5% everyday. So Day 12 was for me the end of this s**tty ordeal (to a certain degree). I can say now of course that looking back on it, I don't think it was that bad. Again, most of all the stuff I posted up here was from my notes / journal I kept. It kind of helps to keep one and check it to see your progress day to day.....I didn't go over mine though or check my progress... I just kept notes. I was just thinking common sense wise especially if you have to go thru w/d's on your own (either way even if you have support, you really are going at it alone); it' just s a good idea to see your progress so you have some kind of support even if it's your own.
I didn't feel 100% till day 25... Listen, what I mean by this is that at day 25, I felt back to normal...Kind of.... To elaborate on this; it's hard to feel 100% after years of opiate dependence even if suboxone is an antagonist instead of an agonist. You can use these terms but these words don't mean shit to your f-ing brain...all your brain knows is that "the opiate bliss was there and now it's gone"....and big terms, definitions and so on are.....just words to us...but they don't mean shit to our minds... Our brains function on what it feels is normal or how our choices that WE have made have influenced how it thinks it should be working.
Suboxone can be a great tool so you can take a break from your drug of choice, from the PIECE OF SHIT PEOPLE that may have influenced your life...from the DOCTORS that push the oxy's, vics, percs, fentanyl etc for just stupid reasons "You got a headache, here is an 80mg Oxy, you'll feel much better and so will my wallet"...from the personal CHOICES you made if you got on this rollercoaster willingly or not.... Maybe something happened though where if you had to take them cause of a real medical issue, they (the doctors) either keep you on them, which is a majority of the cases due to commission, misinformation and or they yank you off them after the cow has been milked cause they don't want their DOPE sales license cancelled.... Suboxone can get you back on track ...
The above paragraph sounds like a f***ing commercial BUT, just so you know, I don't represent the manufactures of suboxone. I lose money on this site, but since I get so many incredible emails and "thank you's"... I keep stepping this site up and will continue to do so. I only hope that this site gives you just that..."hope".
Brian
info@suboxonetaper.com
Comments (631)
Just wanted to say hi and say that I’ve made it to day 30… the pain is going, going, gone… Just thinking a lot about the past ten years and things I can do to improve upon the future… I think I’m off to a nice start… I’ve got so much to do, but I gotta stop and take a breath, because I can get mentally carried away with doing too much. I got to give myself a break… I think that I either find myself being irresponsible or taking myself way too seriously. No more sabotaging my life. I’m actually having moments where I can feel my brain is starting to function more normally or rather it’s responding more naturally… does that sound weird? Is it endorphins? I hope so… because that would really be nice right about now, even though it’s only been 30 days since I started the detox.
day 10 and feel great never even got Naltrexone filled and feel 90%. I hope everyone out there knows its worth it. Thanks for this site it helps. Eventhough I am still sweating and have alil pain being on oxys for 3 yrs and subs for 2 this is the first time I have been clean in so long even longer than the 5 yrs and being this proud of myself is the best high ever. good luck to all taking this step everyday gets better.
thanks for your site. It does help to hear peoples stories. I’m on day 10 and never got Naltrexone filled and feel 90% better. I went back to work on day 5 and I think it helps to be busy, I have never felt better and after 3yrs on oc80s then almost 2 on subs this is the first time in 5yrs that i am clean and even longer if you take other drugs in account. Eventhough I still am struggling with sweating and lil bit of pain emotionally I am SO PROUD. I never thought I would say this but it’s the best high ever! Good luck to all taking this step its not that bad, everyday gets better.
Hard to say to someone, anyone…that if you are at day 5 that is pretty good. Though the 5 days doesn’t seem like a long time (in different perspectives); it is almost over. The bad parts of this will subside after day 12 or so (so you are halfway there). Everyday feels like a lifetime and a minute goes by like a day but just hang in there and you’ll be out of it soon. This whole process is a short time to pay (I know, easy for me to say since I have already done my time / detox) but it really is…. Think of it this way “in 2 weeks, I’ll be feeling a hell of alot better”. The hard part is keeping on track after the fact. If you have come this far, made the decision to get on the sub and now get off it…. You’re on the right track. You are doing a HELL of alot better than most people.
Brian
Suboxone Taper
so i am on day 5 and it sucks i went down to .25mg and i still feel bad but nowhere near what it was like to jones off 160 mg a day. i dont want to chop my legs off i really wanna pick up but i’m trying to be cool. i cry alot and i need someone to tell me as a 27 yr old girl things will be ok.
Oh, and I switched to Zyrtec and it’s helped with the sneezing… lol
heh? Please explain… I’ve got to remember to write not on the web, but in a diary. No single person’s experiences are gonna be the same and we’re not all going to agree on everything. I think it might’ve been my point on the ten year chip that might be the problem for some. I just think (like my addiction doctor does) that people who are on opioid-replacement therapies are given a bad rap and even if they abstain from using drugs other than their opioid-replacement medication. I have noticed, that some of my friends won’t even mention to their families that they’re on Methadone or Suboxone and that’s their decision and I understand the fear. My philosophy is “to each his own, everyone’s journey is different” and I have been honest with most people about the methadone and then the switch to subs. I may have paid a price with some, but it shows who is on your side and going to root for you… no matter what. I go to NA meetings and have always been honest about things if I talk. I feel that the ten year chip is a positive-reinforcement tool that was created to give continued hope. Maybe I don’t deserve one? Then at least I can get another 30 day chip in 13 days, cause by then I’ll have been off the subs for 30 days… Oh, and let me just say… it was satisfying to know, when I went to the doctor’s office the other day and her saw how good I was doing and staying clean, that he was able to free up a spot for someone else to start or continue their recovery. I was very proud at that moment… It was a humbling experience though. Sorry if I offended anyone… this is m last post. I feel After 17 days off of subs, it’s time to stop writing and start getting back to work… finally… lol
Does anyone know what to do about the sneezing symptom? I’ve taken Benadryl, but it makes me so stuffed up and tired. I tried non-drowsy Claritin, but it seems to not be working. I’m still like Sneezy of the Seven Dwarves… lol It’s about the only symptom I have left now that I’m on day 16. Other than the sneezing, the only other symptoms I have are fatigue and emotional ups and downs. I can deal with them, but the sneezing is so annoying. Sorry to complain. It’s not that it’s that bad, but I hate sneezing in pulic and I have an appointment to finally see my Suboxone doctor today, so he can see how I’m doing after 16 days of detoxing. He wants me to take Naltrexone… he wanted me to after just day five, but I just knew with how I felt that just 5 days is too soon to take something that might put in in further withdrawal. I’m going to take it now, cause I think 16 days is long enough, right? I am worried about it though. I’ve been on Naltrexone before and it was interesting, because it only saves you from relapsing if you take it daily and not skip a dose. Anyone got some feelings or knowledge of Naltrexone? Anyone gotten the $800.00 shot that’s supposed to last a month? I heard that the shot is primarily used for alcoholics to supress their cravings and make using alcohol less appealing. I didn’t feel weak minded the first two weeks. I didn’t even think of using or anything. I know I have the disease of drug addiction and it kills if left unchecked… I just began to have cravings this week… not for getting high, but I’ve been craving a sense of normality. I know I’ll defeat these cravings for Suboxone. It takes time… can’t wait for day 30 or even day 120… lol I must make it… I deserve an N.A. 10 chip for staying away from my drug of choice. I believe that even if people believe I don’t deserve the 10-year chip for having been on opioid-replacement therapy for the past 10+ years, I’m gonna be honest… I haven’t used illegal drugs or even legal drugs, such as the Opioid-replacement drugs I’ve been on to get high. I got my life in order, it’s a disease… a certain level of acceptance and latitude should be granted to everyone who walks through the doors to attend an AA or NA meeting. Oh well, I’m sorry if I’ve vented here again. I truly love being clean from the Suboxone and if I ever need to go back on it again… be it after some emmergency surgery like the last time… I would do it in a heartbeat… it helped me save my life and salvage my relationships with my family and friends.
Heheh… Day 12 for me… felt better yesterday than I have in years, but today I felt just a tad shifty in the morning. I would never take back going on Suboxone. It saved my life. It’s all about risk prevention and this site is a wonderful resource. Venting aside, really when it comes down to your own personal experiences with addiction, you’ll have good and bad days. I just feel mentally more stable than when I was using to get high. Life’s too short to just let it pass you by. I may still have a long way to go and may need the reassurance of something like Naltrexone for a while. I’ve been down this road before, just this time, I’ve had a stablized life for the past ten years. Brian, you’ve really given back to other addicts in need of positive reinforcement. I think people right about the pain of withdrawals, like I sometimes do, because we sometimes get caught up in the past. Getting off of Suboxone… I hope I did it for the right reasons. I want to be able to look forward to tomorrow and now that my senses won’t be dulled yet another day.
Baron,
I had this same problem; it was not just the feet but I was sweating for almost a month plus (and then some)…after all the withdrawals had subsided. The shopping for deodorant was a fucking hassle…to find the right one cause I would sweat ALL the time; even when I was completely relaxed and in cold weather I would still sweat, especially under the arms.
No, not a dumb question at all. The thing is, suboxone does help but the problem is, we…you…me…everyone just need to talk about how to deal with the side effects after the fact, good, bad or what ever. The side effects are a HELL of alot better than continueing on that opiate road…. Anyone want to challenge this???? Fucking go ahead… You can bitch all you want about the “uncomfortable side effects for the small amount of time (versus a lifetime) that you can suffer. Baron, this isn’t meant to you, just me venting about my own mistakes.
I would rather sweat than take the financial and roll of the dice up and down road that I used to be on… The sub is a braking system to slow down and to get things undre control. Regarding questions, comments or whatever on this site; I’m just some guy that put this site together still looking for answers to a proble I have already solved…I think…I mean well…I’m clean for a long while now. You all can vent ALL you want on this site… I’m the last one to censor this site…my site….really “our site”…. This shit isn’t mine really…it belongs to you / us.
Brian
Suboxone Taper
Giuseppe:
Thanks for the info! I feel your pain from detoxing off Suboxone. Good luck.
Thank You,
Baron
Hello,
I hope I did not ask a stupid question? If I did I am sorry. I hope someone will give me an answer.
Thank You,
Baron
I’m so sorry if I’ve written anything offensive. I realize now… I went a little off topic and also wrote too much. I just have been going through my first Suboxone detox and it’s hard to contain my thoughts. I’ll seek help and advice elsewhere. I would never mind anyone taking my comments down off of a site. As they are only my temporary feelings and thoughts from going through the pain of detox… it’ll subside… thanks for the great site though.
Wise,
I know dude. I have been thinking about this the last week or so; then with what you have just said it has really made me really re-think and consider why I put this site up. I was the first one to bitch, complain and slam the “forums”. Granted I did want this site to be for the topic of “suboxone taper” or success stories about getting off of suboxone instead of a competition on who took the most amount of opiates, pills or what ever and the bs of “Hey, look at me… I have it worse than anyone” kind of stories.
So I thought, why not give it a shot and see how the viewers of this site would respond and if they would keep to the topic. On a good note, about 95% of the people that have posted have kept to what I have made this site for, for the discussion of getting off / on suboxone and the steps that can help others….but now, having comments on every section is taking away from what my point was…to slap people up side the head in a good way and to discuss the no bullshit aspects of things.
So I’ll try a couple things between now and if I decide to disable the comments section. I’ll make a static page (or home page) along with just the relevant orginal stories (and those pages) that I added and maybe make just one general section or area where people can discuss their general concerns, tips etc….but on a page that doesn’t conflict or take away from the site in a whole.
Thanks for your input, like me, you are to the point with out overly being an asshole or anything. We speak the same language.
Thanks,
Brian
Suboxone Taper
Brian your website is now turning into one of “those forums” you should disable comments bro!!! It’s fucking things up and the whole point of why this website is here..well at least what I got out of your writings.
Wow, just sweaty feet? I wake up drenched in sweat… detoxing is hell and it’s a different kind of hell for most. I think my arm-pits and (gross out factor of ten- my crotch) sweats the most. It’s pretty much become a routine to wake up both feeling hot (which makes you sweat in the first place) and also cold from the actual sweat. Sweat is your body’s natural reaction to feeling over-heated… it’s just not balanced yet. It takes a lot of physical exertion or activy to get your body’s metabolic system back to being like a normal non-opiate using person’s. I am surprised that you went 37 days clean detoxing and went back on the Subutex. It’s valid and shows that you care about yourself. I think recovery from opiates is a never-ending battle. I’m also perplexed by the fact that your sweating issues didn’t get better by day 37, as most ex-Sub users usually say physical symptoms get exponentially better and that by day 24, you’re (usually) feeling physically around 90% better than when you had acute precipitated withdrawals from Suboxone or Subutex. It’s a crazy world out there. It’s like chaos-theory. No single person’s gonna experience everything the same… though there are commonalities. It just might take extra effort on the individual’s part. I’ve discovered (being that I’m almost into day 9 of my Sub detox) that you have to or rather MUST jump start natural endorphins anyway you can. You may laugh but even the slightest bit of working yourself into a sweat helps so much. I’ve read that laughter (as hard as it is to come by when you’re feeling like hell) is great for endorphins… don’t watch anything disturbing on tv. Don’t do things that start a downward spiral… like letting people get inside your head. The best thing is to be like a comedic actor and bullshit your own mind into thinking something is funny, even when you don’t feel like laughing. This is gonna sound odd… sexual pleasure of any kind produces an immediate rush of endorphins and can relax you for quite a while afterwards. GOd knows it can help with sleep. Sleep is another one… endorphins can get released even if you have a nightmare… endorphins are odd. The circulatory system needs to also sweat out all those toxins from the opiates we;ve used. Have you ever noticed (well I have) that when you’re on opiates your body excretes less wastes. Not only less waste through the digestive system, (because of the lack of Peristalsis or muscle movement along inside of the digestive tract) but also less waste can get through your skin. I’ve noticed my face always seems to peel a little during opiate withdrawals. Also, your sweat glands, just like your bowels go into overtime because your brain is having trouble regulating things now that opiates are no longer suppressing certain functions. I know personally just how uncomfortable it can be. I suggest treating your feet like you’ve got gout. You can’t really do anything topically, but you can effect it through changes you make internally. Eat healthy, even if you aren’t hungry. Drink a lot of fluids, even if you don’t feel parched. Maybe hot baths will help you. They’ve helped me a lot. I used to always feel overheated after a hot shower or bath while on opiates, but now after leaving the heat of my bath (even though temperature changes make my skin crawl for a brief period afterwards) …well I just eventually feel more relaxed and cooled off. Foot powders that absorb sweat could help, but if you’re sweating a lot on your feet, I would recommend you very use powder in moderation, so you don’t end up with a paste-like situation in the morning. Come to think of it, I JUST noticed my feet are sweating, but I’m wearing shoes. It’s all about how much power you give a symptom over your mind. I hate it when doctors say sub-detoxes, when done correctly, are mostly mental. It may be true that a great part of it is mental, because your brain’s been the one organ processing most of this drug. I feel there’s alot to be said about the mental effects… they are tough. Just know, you’ve been through it before. They say that most opiate addicts take at least three times in treatment and that relapse becomes more likely with every time you’ve been in treatment. I just say fuck statistics. No body is control of you, but you and only you can convince yourself to do things. It’s a different situation if the person’s got a psychiatric condition or two, has a learning disability, or is impoverished. I really gotta watch what I say. I’m so imperfect and flawed… it’s taken me ten years of growing up and staying clean off of illegal narcotics. Oh wait, see, I am so fucked up… I forgot that I’ve smoked pot a few times at a party here and there during my recovery from Heroin. I never sought it out though. Peer pressure. I hate that saying, but it’s so true. I haven’t used pot in a few years. I think eventually I’ll get better at being true to myself and not doing what others want me to do. That’s how I got into this mess. It’s always that someone who tells you it’s cool, it’s ok… “just one hit and then you get hooked and some bitch from your work is showing you how to pop it into your veins.” I thought I was invincible. What a joke that turned out to be. Ten years older, I’ve missed so much that’s out there. The good things… like life. I don’t know…
Idea excellent, it agree with you.
What a wonderfulplace to come to while getting off Suboxone. I am only on day 2, but this is not my first Detox off Suboxone. I had all the common WD’s that everyone else has reported. I have a question for you all, the last time I detoxed my feet would sweat from day 3 to day 37, where unfortunately I got my tax return, and jumped back to Sub. Anyone else have so much problems with Sweaty feet while Detoxing? Anyone have any solutions to this problem? Brian thanks for this site. I beleive it will help me and I’am sure many others.
Thank You,
Baron
Holy shit, I wrote a fricking novel… I’m sorry for taking up so much space… won’t happen again… lol I just feel insane today from the lack of energy and pain in my back and forehead.
I think buprenorpine as it was available in the eighties, was really only used by anesthesiologists and was primarily in liquid form for use intravenously during or after surgeries. It was available in just a .3mg solution. They still make it and it’s available for use in the US, but doctors rarely prescribe it because it has to be administered by a doctor or at least I think so… for someone who was never an IV drug user it might have an application, but for an IV drug user it would just bring back memories of using. Since it’s in such a small formulation and it’s liquid and contains no other drugs (ie. the Nalaxone that’s in Suboxone) It’s possible, that since it’s in liguid form, it can be exactly measured out and you could titrate down even more than it’s possible to with the 2mg pill… which I find breaks apart into uneven pieces after it’s been halved and then quartered. I so wish that Reckitt Benckiser would stop being so evil and corrupt like all other Pharmacutical Corporations and release better sized pills with more formulations. I would like to see a .25mg or even a .3mg like the liquid buprenorphine made for the final steps of tapering off, but to be honest, they want our money and don’t want us to ever stop taking it. They lobbied our politicians and paid them thousands and thousands of dollars to get their drugs “Suboxone” and “Subutex” on the market. No one really cares about individuals. Especially poiliticians… be they Republican or Democrat. Most all of them have been bought. Just watch Michael Moore’s movie Sicko. It’s digusting what we have to go through as Americans for medical coverage. HMO and Pharmacutical Corporations don’t give a damn. Nixon made the system what it is today… It makes me SICK!! I do believe some doctors do really care. They’ve just been misinformed by the drug company Reckitt Benckiser. They are given actual pamphlets on what exactly to say to new prospective “clients”/patients. They’re told if you taper down to a low enough dose and after a while you can stop without feeling physical withdrawals. (like Brian’s doctor has said and mine too!) It’s like they rehearse this shit. It makes me laugh, because if my doctor was in the situation that he would HAVE to use Subutex or Suboxone, I’m sure he’d change his point on the whole the Sub withdrawals are a mental thing. They all say it’s a mental thing. My doctor had been prescribing me Lorazepam for the later half of my taper and I decided after going through gall-bladder surgery, being off the Subs for a week and experiencing horrible withdrawals during that week of recovering from my two surgeries was the last straw. I did go back on the Subs after only one week out of the hospitol. They had me on Dilaudid, Fentanyl patches, Percocet, and Valium during my stay. They gave me so much opiates, because they had to overcome the 2mg/ a day that I had been taking for a long time. They had it so I could push a button and get a fix of Dilaudid every eight minutes for two days in addition to the Fentanyl patches they kept putting on me. It was ridiculous, but necessary. After three days in the hospital, I went home with a percocet prescription of 5mg tablets that I could take one-two tablets 3 times a day… let me just tell you, I was in pure withdrawal hell from the Subs. 2mg is a lot. .3mg of Buprenorphine is equal to 10mg of Morphine. Buprenorphine is 40X more powerful in it’s agonist effects compared to Morphine. That’s why I decided after a week of withdrawals hell and serious post-surgery pain, that I needed desperately to go back to my Sub Doctor and get back on the Subs immediately… of course I had to be in full withdrawals and waited and took my first Subutex… I got high immediately. It can fuck with your sobriety if you titrate up and down huge ammounts. Baby steps, right? Baby steps is what I kept telling myself. It was only until last month (May 2009) that I decided enough is enough. I knew what withdrawals from 2mg of Subs felt like. I figured finally being down to .25mg a day would be fine and it was… until I tried to skip days. My doctor didn’t like the idea of me tapering off the Subs. He said I was going to DEFINITELY relapse… I laughed but seriously countered with “I feel like you don’t believe in me and you’re basically telling me I should use, because… what the heck… ten years off illegal drugs through Opioid-replacement therapy isn’t really being sober.” I thought I had been clean off my drug of choice, Heroin, but apparently even though he was also my Methadone Clinic doctor and knew I had been clean for the whole six years I was on Methadone and all 4-5 years of me being on Suboxone (both back to back with no relapse on IV Heroin or other street drugs) he didn’t believe I had it in me to stay clean without permanent or at least another year or two of Subs use. I was at my wits end… I decided to stop eventually without telling my doctor… the day I quit we talked on the phone and he told me not to. I was setting myself up for a relapse and that the drugs they had given me for my Gall-bladder surgeries was a relapse. I told him what my definition of relapse is and he laughed at me… he’s not a jerk, but sometimes… I really would like to smack some reality into him. I consider a relapse as something you DECIDE to do… you give into temptation and use to get “high”… not things that are out of your control… like emergency surgery… If I was out to relapse that week, then why’d I stop all opiates after just four days when I was in post-operative pain laying in bed at home? I could have kept using the Percocet and taken it at it’s highest prescribed dose… I even had a refill written on the bottle… I went through withdrawals rather than use something other than the Subs I had been on for years… Doctors worry and I know I’m just as tough on my doctor as he has been with me, but give me a break and give me some credit. Jeez… I called him the other day on day seven of my sub detox this week and he asked me if I was using Heroin again… I was like “WTF?” I know he’s sympathetic to my plight, but doctors need to be on the side of you suceeding and not constantly thinking that you’r on the verge of failure. That’s my two cents worth for today… more like my two-thousand cents worth. Sorry I wrote so much today… day eight has been painful so far… my back is killing me. I just felt like venting. Wish all of you well-ness. -Giuseppe
Sorry for the multi-posts. The .2 is called Temegesic and is apparently available in Europe and Mexico.
And I am in the U.S so I don’t have access to the .2 mg. And I’m not positive it is still available but I know in the 90′s it was pretty widely available in european countries.
The .2mg pill is only available in certain European countries and perhaps Oceania/Australia. It would be nice if Reckitt made at least a 1mg or .5mg pill though as it would seem to make tapering sooo much easier. Guiseppee, Great job man, keep it up, you are almost there!!!
Leon,
Pretty sure I hit you back on this but…yes, drinking tons of fluids will flush anything out of you a bit faster. As I said in my taper 101 deal… Drinking a ton of fluids (water only) during my full vic / oxy withdrawals helped…. I guess…but dude did it just go thru me like crazy; think it made the stomach issues worse but either way its gonna be hell so it’s either walk or crawl across the fire.
With suboxone, which I have only detoxed off of once and don’t ever plan on doing that again, I drank tons of gatorade, well not tons but like 2 to 3 liters a day, I did feel it helped and though I felt like I had ZERO energy, I was able to walk and jog a little. Take your time dude and you’ll be just fine.
Brian
Suboxone Taper
Logan,
I tried skipping days, I didn’t do so great at it in regards to a constant day to day routine before I jumped…. Great point though… I highly suggest it… Looking back now if I had to do the taper over again, I would have for the last like 3 weeks or so, tried to space it out like from skipping at .50mg up to 2 days if I could. Get your body used to this and you might have an easy way to go when getting off the sub… I don’t believe at all it is totally hassle or withdrawal free, but I do thing that this is a VERY good avenue to pursue and try and do think it could help HUGELY.
Brian
Suboxone Taper
Logan,
Just a question, did you mean the 2mg pill or a .2mg pill? I went from using the 8mg pills to the 2mg pills my last 6 months, helped tremendously. The reason I say this is even if you break your 8mg up into 1/4s…if one is just a bit bigger then the other…it really messes things up; though dropping from like 16mg, to 8mg to 4mg…etc…is pretty easy…its the going from 2mg a day to .50mg…to .25 that takes some adjusting.
Thanks for your comments!
Brian
Suboxone Taper
F,
Shoot me off another e-mail. You can give me a call or I’ll call you, got your e-mail by the way. Just let me know and we’ll set up a time that is good for both of us.
Brian
Suboxone Taper
Giuseppe,
The more you write, the more you can help someone out. I wrote down, to the best of my ability, everything I could regarding my taper / suboxone withdrawal process.
One thing you hit on which bugged the shit out of me regarding this process was the back and forth rollercoaster of feeling better than back to bad. Still, and I always have to say this, better than full opiate agonist withdrawal…. Like you said and I have said though…it’s (the suboxone withrawals) like a tease which in a way makes it worse but just mentally cause all of a sudden it’s like “Hey, I’m good, things are looking up”, then BAM, it’s back to feeling like shit. Good posts and GREAT info, THANKS!
Brian
Suboxone Taper
Oh crap, I just realized I’ve written what is tantamount to a novel. I’m sorry for using up so much space. I do feel better. Oh, anyway, long story short… Methadone was making me sleep all day, I had lost my sex-drive, I was completely constipated all the time, and I also developed a common but little talked about condition that can be caused by the Methadone’s constipating effects… cholecystitis and along with that pleasantness… cholelithiasis. Basically I became very ill will a high fever because my gall-bladder became dangerously infected by gall-stones. It’s horribly painful. I was down to just 2mg last october when I had my third, final, and most painful attack. It so painful… describing it doesn’t do the pain justice. Well, I was admitted to the ER and they told me I needed surgery in the next two hours or I would die from the possibility of a rupture and further spread of the infection. I was just beginning to become jaundiced. Well, I informed them that I was on Sub and they said it was no problem. They just medicated the shit out of me with all kinds of powerful opiates until the Sub was overcome and pushed out of my receptors. Well, It was hell the week after when I was recovering from the two surgeries. Yep, two. One to remove my gall-bladder and one to remove all 15 giant sized gall-stones from the bile-duct. Gross stuff. Sorry if this is too much… I better stop writing… for now. Hope all is well for everyone.
Well, I didn’t feel any live-wire for several hours today, but then around 6pm it came back. What’s with this? I hate this back and forth thing. It’s like 1 step forward two steps back. I hope it’s gets progressively better from here on out. I mean, for what it’s worth, I should feel better every day that passes… right? It’s hard to see any kind of end to this misery when you feel like something instead of someone. I feel like some blade of grass that’s been chewed up and spit out by a big fat mule or something. No one seems to write back in here… I’m going to look for some other forums. I need to talk to somebody. When I felt better this afternoon… I thought perhaps I was in the clear… well it did give me hope… if just a little. I hope day 8 will be better. Time seems to be passing ever more quickly now, but still not fast enough for my liking. Even though this will sound pretty damn cheesy, I wish I could go back in a time machine and warn myself about the dangers of heroin and opiates in general. Then maybe my younger self would take one look at the state of me and see how much of a loser I’ve become. I know that sounds harsh, but I’m really fucking pissed that I wasted the past 16 years of my life on this shit. Six of those years using heroin on and off, another six stable but still addicted to Methadone, and then the last four… almost five years stable yet still addicted to Suboxone. I am extremely grateful for what Methadone and Suboxone have done for me. I would have probably died years ago if I hadn’t gotten clean off of the heroin. I haven’t used any “street” drugs in the past ten years, well except for smoking some pot at a party or two. I’ve been in “opioid replacement therapy” and have enjoyed a more normal life, but I became a huge agoraphobe. I’ve worked mostly from home in the past ten years. I was lucky and yet I feel I’ve not participated in life enough. I’m not afraid of relapse. I get angry at the thought. I have had some really good friends over the years. I have drank alcohol. I’ve never had any life problems from alcohol. I know people say alcohol is a gateway drug like pot, but I haven’t any real interest in the two. I don’t drink when I’m alone and have never driven after having any alcohol… mainly because all my crazy behavior was in my twenties. I know I’ve been writing a lot in this forum. I hope this isn’t long-winded and coming across like complete shit. I have to get these things out there somehow. I’ve already talked my friends’ ears off and find it more theraputic to ramble to a captive audience than to someone who will become begrudged by my current neediness. I feel kind of pathetic right now. No one’s probably going to read this and if they do, what are they going to take away from this and the other things I’ve written on this site. I know this is a site about Brian’s Suboxone experience… I just like the idea of documenting one’s own experience coming off of and having used Suboxone. Methadone’s a whole other experience… I tell you it’s hell switching from Methadone to the Subutex. After two days of abstaining from the Methadone and going through the most horrible withdrawal pains I’ve ever experienced, I began taking Subutex. (It’s well known that you shouldn’t start with Suboxone because of the Nalaxone… even though it’s pretty much inactive when you take it correctly) I have to say the Subutex didn’t make me feel much better for several days and it took several weeks for me to stop craving the high of Methadone… which they totally want you to be on a high dose at the Methadone clinics. It also seems like they want you to stay that way indefinitely if you are successful in staying clean on it… which I was. I only relapsed once and that was during the first two weeks. After that I didn’t want to lie to myself about my addiction and it finally dawned on me that I have an incurable disease. I’m a opiate addict. I’ll never be the same as I was before. When all is said and done though, I did begin to notice that Opioid-replacement therapy has it’s definite side-effects and eventually begins to show some drawbacks.
Well, I made it to day seven. What a roller-coaster ride. It’s like that scene from the movie Final Destination 3 and you see yourself dying on the roller-coaster and you kind of want everyone else to also… lol nah just kidding. I have felt better, but at least I feel better than the first few days. There’s still moments where the live-wire and back pain/soreness gets to me, but there’s moments where I actually don’t notice it. I also have started to remember dreaming… I actually have had dreams in the past two nights. I can’t say how much of a relief they have been. I wake up and think about them right away. I then notice how much I feel better. I always feel better after sleep… even if it’s only for three to four hours worth at a time. Temazepam didn’t really work the first few days, but it is now. I don’t sleep as long as I would like to, but hey at least I’m able to sleep for three-four hours twice a day… I haven’t been working this week… believe me when I say, it would basically be impossible to work during the acute phase of Suboxone withdrawals. They’re milder, but they still kick your ass. It’s a double-edged sword. You just got to do detox for the right reasons, because it will play tricks on your mind… you basically have to talk aloud to yourself and sound like a looney self-help guru spouting mantras. It’s like I’m the ass-end of a joke right now. I still feel hellish at times, but I look forward to when I won’t feel this way anymore… and that time will come. It helps to write this crap down…
I’m on day five of my Suboxone-detox/withdrawals and it’s 6pm. I still have the live-wire/goose-flesh feeling. It’s the only symptom that bothers me. I want it to go away. Exercise doesn’t help. I’m tired, but not exhausted. I have the restless-leg thing a little bit every now and then. I mostly twitch my legs in response to the fricking live-wire feeling I’m having trouble with. Even with Clonidine, it doesn’t go completely away. I’m pissed off right now. I know everyone says it gets progressively better as days go by, but time seems to be at a slow-crawl now that I’m off of the Suboxone and five-days into my detox. I will say this it doesn’t feel like time is standing still… like during the first four days. Time did seem to pass by today without me watching the clock. I remember watching the clock so much the first three days. I guess I’m not completely out of the woods on this, from reading Brian’s detox experience. I hope I feel better by day twelve… like Brian did. I don’t know if you still read this blog on your site, Brian, but your experience and how well you explain it, really helps to give it reality for others who haven’t tapered yet or are about to detox. It sucks that it’s been so hot here in Seattle. It doesn’t help when the temperature soars into the 90′s and you’re detoxing. I’m glad it cooled down today. Otherwise, I’d be beached on the couch or my bed like the last three days that were so hot here, and I wouldn’t be able to get up and write this or do very much else. I do have hope that there will be an end in site to the more severe/bothersome symptoms. I just want the live-wire feeling in my back and arms to go the f**k away!! Any suggestions on how to make that situation a little better would be appreciated. Thanks to anyone who reads this and haves some helping words for me. -Giuseppe
I have to say, I went from 8mg to 4mg in one day. Started at 12mg at first after coming off 120mg of percs. Was ok till the one day jump from 8 to 4. Ok for about 2 and 3 days, then- what te f-k! couldnt think-even talk. I was so S-C-A-R-E-D. Each day was a nightmare. I also thought i had bran damage, and didnt know if this would ever go away. Thats when i searchednline and found your 101 story. Although you said it took 12 days,i was so f—kd up an confused,i was afraid it was not gonna go away. The funny thing-I never thought about taking more to stop it-the w/ds. this was my first time for any w/ds. exept the occasional nutty feelings of restless leg and oh my god feelings i would get when i ran out of my prescribed percs. a day early! But i raed this -101 thing every day while it was UNbareable. Thought it would never go away, and————SURE enough-12 days, and i could breath again. The little leftover symptoms were nothing. Couldnt have done it without your story. Still on about 3 to 4mg and would like to talk to you, if i could. thanks so much——ROTORBOY!
I felt a bit better at times today. It’s an on and off thing… kind of like what Brian describes. Everyonce in a while you get a glimmer of hope. It can last up to an hour or more, especially if you move your body. Just getting out of bed can be hard. I feel light-headed and the insomnia is driving me nuts, even with the temazepam at night. It’s a struggle. Suboxone is definitely a force to be reckoned with… you just have to push back. I wish I could do more to make myself comfortable, but it’s like time is at almost a stand-still. I keep watching the clock… hoping for improvement. I’m a little desperate, but never hopeless. I’m bi-polar manic-depressive. Thank god… I’m in a manic phase right now. I am not depressed at all. I actually can laugh at stuff that’s funny and don’t cry at stupid sad movies like some wuss… lol Full-agonist opioids make you feel like a bitch. I never cry… even when I’m in the depressed phase of my bi-poler cycle. I hate depekote and couldn’t do this detox if I was on that right now. It would probably make me depressed. Oh well, at least the Live-wire feeling is becoming less of a constant issue. I still have moments where I feel it, but it comes and it goes. I’m almost into day three, but I can feel that the Suboxone’s half life has been depleted and my pupils are so reactive, that they move back and forth from being big to small really, really fast. I think that’s a good sign. Hopefully I can make it tommorow with no clonidine. I sure hope so. The fatigue and the insomnia are the worst symptoms I am experiencing at the moment. I feel like I’m weighted down with lead weights. I know that feeling will take a good bit of time to go away. At least that seems to be the case for the majority of people out there. There’s so much hope. Yet, I’m still scared. I know I will make it… it just seems to take forever for time to pass. Any thoughts? …from anyone? Oh well.
Good luck Giuseppe you have taken a great step forward! As far as advice, I wish I had more but the few things i can tell you are just what seemed to work for me the 3-4 times I went through full-blown withdrawals. Stay hydrated and eat if you can, even if you have to force it a little, a bit of nutrients goes a long way for a starved body. Take immodium if you need it but only if you need it. You already gave your friend your clonidine and or benzos with a schedule so that is good. The thing that always seemed to give me a bit of relief was physical activity. Walks or bike-rides in the later days seem to do a lot of good and can help a ton with sleep. The other thing that seemed to help me was writing. (I would go on internet forums and write about politics or even opiates or whatever just to get my mind streamlining on something other than the w/ds, it doesn’t always work sometimes you are too drained but if you can get into it it seems to help a bit) If writing isnt your thing maybe painting or reading or something is and it helps if you can try to get something like that to concentrate on.
I wish I could be of more help. good luck giuseppe!!!
Oh, and by the way, this December will officially mark my tenth year without using illegal street drugs. (though, a lot of people don’t consider me clean in N.A., I believe it only matters if you lived without using to get high. Maintenance opiate-replacement therapy saves lives. I do consider myself sober) I will be going on naltrexone after I complete my sub-detox.
Hey to all of you out there!,
I wanted to add that I had an easy time going down in the last month and a half from 6mg to just .25mg … that’s right I’ve taken my last suboxone dose today at 10AM and am feeling fine, so I think it’s time to stop and buckle down for my (official) detox part of my 4 year suboxone journey. I have my detox meds ready for my friend to give me on a schedule. (Oh, and I’m one of the lucky non-benzo seeking addicts) Never really liked them… only ever had to use them for short periods of time for a detox. Needless to say they are very powerful and can kill, if taken for too long at high doses and then stopped suddenly or if they are taken with other respiratory suppressors like suboxone, heroin, oxycodone, etc. I am scared of feeling like “death warmed over” once I am well into my detox. I am worried that it will be like regular opiate withdrawals, terrible, but will last three-times longer. I remember the last time I kicked heroin (a little over ten years ago) and it was horrible, but the most severe part (ie. – the twitching and shaking, hot & cold flashes, goose-flesh live wire feeling, the cramps. and insomnia) only lasted a maximum of 4-5 days and the lesser symptoms (fatigue and lack of appetite) lasted a maximum of 7-10 days. I always remember feeling better in a few days and I’m most scared of it being drawn out to the Nth degree! lol I don’t know. I think this is the most scared I’ve been in my life and I’ve gone through full-blown opiate withdrawals from methadone and I thought that was gonna kill me… I even hallucinated… lol (and that’s not a good thing) Oh well, I porbably sound like a wimp, but there’s so much negative comments about people’s experiences out there in blog-land that it makes me feel sicker! I’m even a little scared from what you wrote, Brian, about your detox. My taper has gone fine… I’m at the end and it’s like standing on a cliff and you stand there frozen looking down and you can’t see the bottom, but you know you gotta jump eventually. It takes a huge frickin leap of faith in yourself. You really do have to be a changed person at the end of your taper or else you’ll jump for the wrong reasons. I don’t know if that makes sense, but I hope somebody can give me a pep-talk… help? thanks to all! Oh, and thanks LoganH. I’m just hoping for some tips on how to mentally get through this and also physically too, if possible. I don’t know if anyone could help. Oh well. I gotta go and keep on pushing ahead. Wish me luck. -Giuseppe
Good point about Reckitt. I’ve heard that in Europe there is a .2mg (yes thats 1/5 of a mg) pill that is widley available.
Let me say good job getting as far as you have. My personal advice would be to give your friend your “helping meds” with a set schedule of what to give you when to make it last as long as possible. Like Brian (I think) has said though, if you have any history of benzo abuse it would probably be a good idea to avoid them but if not they can help with sleep at a minimum. Just do not take them for longer than a few weeks. Let me make clear that this is just my opinion and I am in no way a medical professional.
I personally have not tapered that low so my ideas/opinions are a bit limited.
But, I think Brian and others have said/wrote that tapering down to micrograms is possible and somewhat helpful….I would think this is correct. So i would discuss this with your doctor and if he is not helpful you could tell him you wish to continue a maintanence dose and taper further on your own. But if you do not wish to taper further there are some success stories of users “jumping off” from 2mg or higher so it is by no means impossible. Good luck and sorry I couldn’t be more help.
Hello to everyone out there!,
I’m in a weird situation at the moment. I will start by saying that I used heroin from fall of 1995 to spring of 1997 and during that time, I’d use for a week, run out of money, and then kick for a week (sometimes longer). I finally entered inpatient treatment at a hospital where they gave me meds like Clonidine patches for my blood-pressure/creepy-crawlies, muscle-relaxors for leg cramps, and benzos for anxiety and so I would sleep. I also went through extensive counseling there and was released after 14 days to an outpatient program. After that I relapsed briefly again and then spent a good while clean until summer of 1999. I then decided to enter a methadone treatment program and was on that for a little over six years. I then discovered that doctor’s were prescribing this drug called Suboxone and that it had the same side effects as methadone, but they were not to the same extreme as methadone. (Such as the aweful constipation and inevitable weight gain) I have been on Suboxone now for the past four years and was able to lose weight and become more physically active than when I was on even what was considered a moderate to low dose of methadone. (When I was on methadone, they pushed me to go up and up until I was on 110mg of that crap and I was nodding off at work… which wasn’t the reason why I wanted to get on it in the first place.) Anyway, sorry for the long post, I do have a question/dilemma. I am now down to .5mg or one half of a milligram once a day. I’ve had little to no problems with withdrawals until I reached early morning of day four of taking just .5mg I have some meds in my possession… NOT other opiates, but meds like temazepam for sleep, lorazepam for daytime anxiety, methocarbamol for cramps, dicyclomine for abdominal cramps, and clonidine for the live-wire/goose-flesh. I do not have an unlimited supply and I am worried that using them now is going to make them less effective when it comes time to stop completely. I Have not taken a single clonidine however, because my doctor warned me that it is addictive in some weird way… it causes a backlash effect/withdrawals of sorts when you stop… just like with opiates… except the only symptom you’ll have is the symptom you use it for and that is the live-wire feeling. It’s the thing I can’t stand the most and I’m fretting it. I have had a really positive attitude up until today. I’m confused and scared of feeling like crap once again… after so long. It’s been TEN YEARS since I’ve felt withdrawals like I had today. I didn’t go down fast. I was all ready to stop. I don’t want to cut the pills down anymore into smaller pieces. I just want to not prolong this. I’ve read that some people have gone off of suboxone at 2mg, which I think is fricking crazy talk. My point of view is this, I’m 34, going to be 35 this year. I’m too old for this shit anymore. I may sound like I’m venting, but I’m frustrated after doing this taper for so long. I’ve been tapering off of opiates for ten years!! I want today to be the last day I take suboxone. I don’t have the meds to keep pillowing the fall. I think I need to just crash and have my roommate medicate me with the meds I have. I am considering asking my doctor for Ambien to help with the sleep-deprivation. I want to ask you, Brian, did you have any meds to help you through the withdrawals? I’ve been through plenty of opiate withdrawals before… dozens and dozens of times, but the last time I was in withdrawal from a regular opiate was ten years ago. Will it be hellish? From what you wrote, it sounds like a day to day hell, and then a day to day mind-f*ck. I wish I could go down to .25mg, but my doctor doesn’t advise it. He agrees that it prolongs the inevitable and I don’t think I can skip days without using my meds. Help please. Any thoughts? Anyone? -Giuseppe
P.S.- thanks for making this site. It’s the only one that doesn’t seem like a commercial and also doesn’t slam suboxone. People forget that drugs kill and that suboxone is a safe medication to help with opiate addiction, when used correctly.
I just wish it wasn’t such a bitch to get off of. It sure seems like Reckitt Benckiser Pharmaceuticals doesn’t want people to ever get off of this stuff, even though they may be truly trying to help a huge segment of the populace. I sure wish they had a third, even smaller milligram pill, that was the same size as the 2mg pill or even the 8mg pill. It would make tapering even easier… unless they know something we don’t? Oh well. Help.
Hey all!! Thanks to everyone for sharing their stories.
A quick FYI; I have been on Sub for 25 months and have just started( this is day 4) to taper from 16mg down to 12mg. So far, so good. I would say I’m still 99%.
My question(s): I’m curious if anyone has tried skipping days when they get down low say between .25 and 2mg. For example, after one is comfortable at .25 mg a day, instead of stopping all together, first take the .25 every other day or even every 3 days. I’m not sure if this just prolongs the inevitable or if it may be effective at reducing the w/ds or maybe gradually introducing the w/d symptoms so as to make it a bit easier. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Good luck everyone.
Brian,
Thanks for your time and effort. You are “The Man!” What you have done is awesome and I will continue to peek into this site as I continue to taper slowly. Your information is right on the money and it is in a language that I can definitely relate to. I abused on the streets from 1998-2007,then went to the $$$$Methadone Clinic;which seemed to make my addiction bigger and stronger.I have been on Sub for 12 months and on the 10th month began to slowly taper. So far I have went from 20mgs to 12mgs w/no problems at all,but I realize that I have only scratched the surface!I’ve always wandered if drinking plenty of fluids would speed up the process? You would think that it would.
Leon
Boris,
I have already hit you up and talked to you… just to comment for others. It’s no so much that the “withdrawal is easier” but that the suboxone has this ceiling effect where you don’t want to just keep taking more. The sub gives you time to repair, reflect and understand that you “did” have a life before this. It’s a time out deal…..while you plan your next play, which is always up to you in the end. You make the call, if you blow it, its your fault, if you succeed, you rock… The decisions always lie on our shoulders unfortunately. By the way…thanks for your e-mails, they kicked ass.
Brian
Sikk,
Thanks dude… Just keeping to how I see things and how I did my deal. The truth blows…but no one can say “Hey Reff, bad call…”….. It is what it is. Hope all goes well for you.
Brian
To echo everyone else, great information, exactly what I was looking for.
Tapering wasn’t too much of a problem for me. I would stop taking the sub until I couldn’t sleep well (about 2-3 days) and then I would take a small amount and wait a half hour and would feel better and be able to sleep. Eventually my body/brain got used to the lower amount.
I have tried jumping off at least twice and never make it past day 5. I get so tired and sick. The restless legs, my brain playing tricks on me, anxiety. Its worst when you already know what you have to look forward to. Sleep is the worst. I just want to sleep so bad and its impossible.
Also difficult because other people don’t understand what you are going through and youjust want to be left alone.
Anyways, when I try to come off again, I am gong to try to make it at least 12 days, if I can get that far, then hopefully I won’t give up my ‘equity’. I am really happy for your site and it answers exactly what I was questioning. How long till you can sleep more than 5 mintues at night.
Thanks, Marie
Hey bro….I have to say I’ve never come across helpful information like this that also made me laugh a few times WHILE teaching me things…I “get” your sense of humor…I’d probably end up writing a similar piece if I attempted…but, your information and experiences are very helpful to me or any others reading…
About the taper, it’s nice to finally see some real info about it. I’m a Sub “newbie” myself, 2 weeks in…personally, I’m hoping to make this a 1-2 mo detox…but, i wouldnt be surprised if i need it for along time after a long perioid of using Oxy’s…and I’m taking a “wait n see” approach as to how long I need it…but, already down from 16mgs to 8mgs…and one day 4mgs…one day “off” and so forth… I’m just enjoying the ride…and if I crash into a tree along the way, I’ll buckle up and get back to driving the son of a bitch…hell, it beats spending the last few nickles in the change cup just to get gas to go get my fix…ya know? Cheers and Good Luck…I’ll check back in. – Sikk
hey man, i just want to thank you for taking the time to make this website and give people concrete information about the sub taper. this is the probably the best info on suboxone taper that i’ve been able to find anywhere.
i have been on suboxone for roughly 2 years and just starting my final taper. before that i was on methadone for i guess about 2 years as well. for the past 9 months or so i’ve been at 4mg a day and now i’ve moved down to 3.5mg. seem to be doing ok but my doctor is kind of pushing me.
anyways i was kind of hoping you could enlighten me a bit about your taper process as far as:
1: when you went down to smaller does were you taking them many times through out the day or just once in the morning or once at night or something? i can’t seem to get through the day without taking my daily dose and splitting it up and taking them every 2 hours.
2: was there a certain period of time that you felt not very good for a few days/weeks when you went down to the next taper? can that be expected to go away every time you drop down or will you just constantly feel like crap after you get below say 1mg per day. right now im at 3.5mg like i said and i felt like crap and was cheating for about 2 weeks but now im stead 3.5mg and feel about the same as i did at 4mg. can i expect this to continue all the way down to .25 mg?
thanks for taking the time to read this and i am looking forward to a reply if you feel like it.
– anthony
DW,
Thanks for the comments. I have said this a few times on my site “That I come off like a smart ass or judgmental” but I am just calling it as I see it. You hit it right on the nose; this is not something you can just pull off and get better over a few months. If someone can do that, more power to them but the relapse rate is just ridiculous and they are just bullshitting themselves. As I said “I took my time on the sub” and made sure that not only did I change my whole life, job, friends, but my whole outlook on my entire life before I even considered taking that next step (the jump)… I mean, I could have just stayed on it but I no longer needed it. Once you are on the sub even after like a week or so…you don’t feel anything anyway…and that is exactly what it is suppose to do. It’s just a buffer or it’s like hitting pause so you can go on, get on and get back to normal but like you are doing, with help, support and time. Just take it slow; you are on the right track. You’ll win this one.
Brian
DW, also, sorry about deleting your post off the contact page… I got it and again thanks, My coding was all off when I published that page and the comments that you and I both posted was all out of alignment. Thanks…
Thank you so much for sharing your experience, strength and hope! Your info on this site is exactly what I have been looking for the past few months. I now know what to look forward to when it comes time to get off this stuff. I am tapering myself, with the help of my doctor, at the present time. And I agree with you 100% about the online forums and the sh*t people post on there. What’s the point of posting if you dont have positive things to say, right? It’s just a huge mind f*&K Anyways, thanks again for your help. I’ve found 12 step programs to be extremely helpful in my recovery as well. That way I have a good chance of “living” in the solution and not the problem. You are awesome for making this site! Much love!
Your second comment:
DW says:
May 5, 2009 at 4:14 am
I just posted a comment on the main website page, and not to repeat myself, but thank you for this site! I’m currently on sub and in a 12 step program. I tried suboxone before in 06 for only 3 months, which I was not in a 12 step program and i was convinced I was “cured” of this disease of addiction in that short period. Anyways, i relapsed for another two years and life got so bad that I decided to try the sub again. This time I am in the 12 step program, working the steps and have changed everything. I also realize that i am never “cured” and this is just a daily reprieve. Been on sub for 18 months now and am gradually tapering off. I tried jumping off at 4 mg( without my Dr’s consent) because i got cocky a few months ago, but that only lasted 5 days. So now I am just taking it real slow. But anyways, that is enough about me. Your site has been a huge inspiration for me! It is good to finally find someone that has real info, and not having to read through hundreds of pages on a forum to find a real answer. I’m proud of you for successfully tapering off suboxone and changing your life around! I’m sure you will inspire many others just as you have me.
Boris,
I know what you are saying and I understand your thinking. Before I considered taking the suboxone, I contemplated the same thing and reading so many just shitty stories and I thought to myself “Am I switching one problem for another”…. It’s not the case though. The sub has a ceiling effect, so you can only take so much. For me, the longer I was on it, the less I took…and it wasnt by choice, it was more of a subconscious thing. I’m not saying I dropped from (example only) 8mg to 4mg in a day unknowingly, but I did notice I was taking like 6mg instead of my normal 8mg…. and I didn’t feel shit.
You mentioned and I am just confirming from what I went through, the withdrawals are not as hard, more just uncomfortable and the biggest thing, you don’t…and I mean you DON’T have to keep taking more, more, more and more to get that high or the maintenance effect like you do on regular opiates (pain meds or what ever). Wish you the best bro…hope you can get off the rollercoaster.
Brian
Wow I admire your courage and frankness I am deeply mired in addiction I have used and abused opiates for about 12 years now Honestly I just felt suboxone was just another substitute you got addicted to but they say the withdrawal kick is easier. I think it mostly psychological and mental but a bit physical to make a huge dent in your phsyche and life in general! More power to anybody who can stay the course overall a period of weeks or months without giving up to the emotional painkiller rollercoaster ride that is addiction!
Boris