Suboxone Withdrawal / Taper 101
My Suboxone Taper…
I have detoxed off of “Pain Killers” 3 times and my last and final time (which was my 4th time) was off the suboxone after being on it for 2 yrs and about 9 months… Just some background so you know I’m not some novice putting my 2 cents in… Now, straight to what you are here for; some info on what an experience might be like for you coming off the sub.
My 6 Month Suboxone Taper:
1) During 2 yrs and about 9 months on suboxone I went from 16 mg (being at 16mg daily for that time) to 8 mg pretty quick with really no problems, really zero problems. This was not planned exactly. I just didn’t need that much…I felt. Stayed at 8 mg for about 1 1/2 years and then went from 8 mg to 4 mg in a couple months. NO PROBLEMS AT ALL…. BUT AGAIN I TOOK “MY” time.
2) In a 6 month period I went from 4 mg to 3 mg.. I then tapered to 2 mg in a few months. I did this and adjusted from 2 mg to 3 mg down to 1 mg….back and forth till I felt right at 2 mg…I did the taper, I went at my pace… I didn’t let anyone else “push me”. The final month or so I went from 2 mg to 1 mg then to .50….. I only felt a little shady when I dropped big amounts; like when I would drop from 3 mg to 1 mg to see how it would feel. I suggest you don’t do this. You don’t feel it right away, you feel it 3 or so days later… It’s not bad though…you can adjust and do a 25 minute quick fix with a chip off your suboxone pill to make you feel better. It’s funny how the “quick fix” is…but what a pain in the ass it is when it comes time to the ultimate repair work…ie. when you have to take the jump and get off the opiates or suboxone.
*Quick note* 90% of what I have written below regarding my taper process and what I went through while coming off the sub was from my notes / journal during my taper / withdrawal from the sub… I have edited only a little bit because I now have a clearer head and some of the thoughts I had when writing this were blurred. The following is what I went thru… Your taper and withdrawal process might go smoother or worse. Talk with your doctor first, if you can. If you have a stubborn or ignorant doctor, get a new Doctor before you taper or even if you just want to continue on suboxone.
One BIG point, just from my opinion. There is nothing wrong with long term suboxone treatment or even lifelong treatment with suboxone; again that’s just my opinion… I just suggest that you should only quit if you feel like you have changed YOUR life SO much that, the person you were, is no longer alive…..or what I mean, your old self is gone mentally.
SO….
3) Ok, D-Day minus 7: I went from .50 mg to .25 mg and actually less, the rest went in the toilet and I had alot of suboxone left. I suggest getting a $1.99 7 day pill box for your taper (that’s what my girlfriend did for me). Sounds f-ing lame but it helps you keep track of the dropping process so you don’t cheat (you’ll only be f-ing yourself if you think about it and it’ll just take longer). It’s just human nature to make yourself “feel better” and subconsciously you’ll take “just tiny bit more” and that will F**K things up. I am not a pro at the taper thing, I f***ed up a bunch of times; went up down, back and forth etc. Will power helped but by my girlfriend helped me alot by breaking the sub up and putting them in the weekly pill reminder. Support is great put ultimately it’s all you in the end. I did feel a little “different” but not uncomfortable at .25 mg but I was ok. I think it was more mental than anything at this point.
4) Last .25mg at 8am on a Sunday morning. Went all day with NO PROBLEMS, slept fine and even had a steak that night for dinner.
5) (First +24hours) Monday Day: Morning…woke up fine, nervous though like I thought literally I would wake up with Death standing in the corner. Went about Monday ok. By the afternoon I was feeling pretty good, Cocky even..”Yeah F*** everything I read online, it ain’t bad, my taper worked or will”… Monday Night, actually slept ok…. Nervous still but ambien works great (I had written on my original site that Ambien CR “could or probably” would work better, NOPE, my bad….Bull Shit advice on my part!. Regular ambien kicks your ass right away and puts you right to sleep and doesn’t “slowly” release like Ambien CR does; I suggest regular ambien). An additional piece of advice and you can take it or leave it. I would put the regular ambien in my mouth, but then bite it in two. For me it seemed to work faster and when you feel bad…every minute seems to count.
6) (Day 2) Tuesday: Morning…Uh…Thought I was ok, I was very optimistic. Lost some speed and felt a little slow. Tuesday mid afternoon felt like I was weighted down. Uh oh… This is where I am suppose to write about how day 3 was all out Thermo Nuclear War, The Cuban Missile Crisis Revisited and or then the 7th Seal of The Bible was opened and GOD said unto me “I shall let loose many apocalyptic pigeons and they shall shit all over your custom chopper….” and God smiled and it was ALL GOOD…. Well… Let’s talk about day 3.
7) (Day 3 early am) Wednesday: Day 3 is where I should now be telling you that the 72 hour half life, once it’s up is not that bad. Ok, sorry, just telling you the truth. The missiles launched…Castro, Khrushchev, Kennedy never worked things out and the pigeons did shit on my chopper. I woke up Wednesday morning around 3am or so and my girlfriend was talking to me, I freaked out I guess. I was crying, shaking, sweating…legs were all jumping crazy style… I was in pretty bad shape. Killed the situation though and went into negotiations with another ambien and broke out the xanax or the big guns to suppress the living nightmare. (suggestion: If you got xanax (from a Doctor), take them (not to much or don’t take them if you have had some addiction issues with xanax / benzos), don’t take them forever also, just during this whole withdrawal process; so don’t stress about the f***ing posts on how you can get hooked on them; I mean come on, we’re talking about a 2-3 week time frame here). 35 minutes later I was asleep and slept ok. Off of regular opiates, this would have never happened, being able to sleep so quickly even with the help of ambient and xanax.
8) (Day 3 continued) Wednesday continued: Morning, woke up like I had the flu and just the flu. No flu X’s 100, no crawly crazy feeling…surprisingly and thinking about it now; the cold sweats were not that bad either but I did get them. I did have restless legs so I just went with it. It wasn’t out of control, it just bugged. . Another thing, I was and had been eating even though I was forcing it.
(Day 3 continued) Wednesday Mid-Day: Not good, same feeling, energy now going bankrupt. Split town Wednesday night to a small place in outside of town and was there from then on out, or thru the somewhat ruff-stuff.
(Day 3 continued) Wednesday night: Slept ok, took 1 ambien and 1 (one) 2 mg xanax before bed.
9) (Day 4) Thursday: Energy was gone, did ZERO except watch “suspenseful” movies to keep my mind occupied during just miserable, but bare-able conditions, bare-able to a degree I would say, still f-ing sucked. Went for a quick walk that night and felt ok during that time. No major stomach problems though, so laying around was not a major hassle. Let me add, the stomach issues were not a “zero issue” but they were not horrible like coming off of oxy, vics or a full agonist.
10) (Day 5) Friday: Felt ok actually when I woke up…and felt ok, still shitty but “ok” for most of the day. Went for like 5 walks and mixed it up with very short jogs (like 100 yards) throughout the whole day. I was able to do this due to positive thinking though along with being angry about having to go thru this whole deal…now looking back on it.
Walking or just doing anything physical; this makes the feeling or withdrawal symptoms go away fast for a short period of time though. Even when you feel like you have zero energy to do anything; you just have to do it! Trust me, it’ll help when it comes night time / sleeping. Any tiny bit of help is better than nothing, hu? You also have to force yourself to eat. I did eat and the problems that usually follow with full blown opiates were mild but not good. The stomach issues I had with full opiate agonist withdrawals is what I really hated, everything just going thru you and in turn this makes you so weak. The Suboxone, even after almost 3 years on it, didn’t give me the hardcore stomach issues I have had before.
This condition of diarrhea dehydrates you and makes the “healing” process take longer. This is just common f-ing sense…but as we all know; when you have no appetite it’s just f-ing tough to think about food. I Ate pasta, lots of scrambled eggs, cheese and toast…I know, sounds stupid. Eating this shit would have killed me and go thru me while detoxing off of full opiate agonists (like pain meds, full opiates etc…). Since I have been thru the real thing 3 other times and knowing how bad it could be; I thought “What can make it any worse so might as well eat as much high protein and high fiber stuff as I can”.
I was getting cocky again and stayed this way. If I felt I wasn’t hungry… I ate, if I didn’t want to walk…, I walked (I sound like Forest Gump?)….and when I thought I felt ok I had a drink (not a good idea and I don’t suggest it at all). I drank (alcohol to be clear) Friday night and woke up Saturday feeling like I was back to how I felt on Thursday…ok, my bad on my part. Keep in mind you are fighting to keep your body a float a long with trying to keep your mind together and on coarse so, again….don’t mess with anything that can trip you up or that puts you back.
11) (Day 6) Saturday: Relaxed all day, went on my walks, ate, walked…ate… laid around and so on. Energy level still low, confusion, loss of creativity and in addition my anxiety level was running pretty high. Where I was taking my time to do this was up in the mountains, so there was snow there…it was very cold… I actually was punching snow, like the hard packed shit. I did this cause I thought it would help my brain release some kind of endorphins… Not sure if it really worked, cut my knuckles up pretty good though, but it did get my mind off of how I was feeling (which was like shit) even if it was just for a few minutes. The stupid things we do out of desperation…
12) (Day 7) Sunday: Felt…..nothing. Not good, not bad….just nothing. That is better than feeling like shit I guess. Maybe I did feel like shit but I literally felt like I was in a fog. This part is hard to explain… I was just brain dead it felt like. I did concern me at the time.
13) (Day 8) Monday: woke up 3am wired. Wide awake. Monday was foggy and I was so tired from lack of sleep. Still felt shady like Sunday but now I couldn’t sleep at night or during the day. My energy levels were still low. This is what I didn’t get. I would be so tired during the day and the previous week I could sleep. Now I was tired all day and come 10:00pm when I wanted to go to bed I couldn’t sleep at all, even with ambien.
14) (Day 9) Tuesday: Though I did sleep or had slept kind of, it had been so light that I remember even being in a slight dream state at like 1am and thinking “I am not getting any REM (rapid eye movement) sleep”. I am no expert but I do read enough to know that getting a deep good night sleep and being in that REM state is when your body really does the repairing of itself and this is important, obviously. Being at day 9 and with night 7, day 8 and night 8 being the same, I felt like I was leveling out and that I would have to put up with this unfortunate now barely bare-able state for a while.
I could function but I was very jittery, confused, dizzy and when I walked up a flight of stairs, I would get a bouncing motion in my brain. This had not happened before coming off of hard opiates ie. being jittery, wired, fog like confusion and not able to sleep. Keep in mind, hard opiate withdrawals, sleep is questionable….it’s like you are so out of it your body shuts down and makes you sleep or when you want to sleep that is when the shear nightmare hits and you are kicking like a mule and paranoia / anxiety is at its peak.
Also, I kept thinking that I was at like day 14 (when I was really at day 9). Keep in mind that the half life of suboxone / buprenorphine is 72 hours and you don’t feel “like shit” till day 3 or so. Even though I consciously knew what day I was really at I couldn’t break this feeling or thought. Any other opiate / pain med withdrawal lasts a minimum of 11 bad days, or it had for me. Off regular oxy, vics, etc… When you stop regular opiates let’s say in the morning, you feel like shit that afternoon… You knew that the w/d’s started and that the clock was ticking till you’d relapse or if you hung in there, you could be in the clear in 11 or so days. Off of full blown opiates I would feel shady for 11 or 12 days and bounce back fast after that (with 3 days of feeling a little off my rocker after day 11 or 12)… Don’t get me wrong though, suboxone is still the best way to go cause it gives you time to break that “habit” and get your life back to normal. Plus as I’ll write about this in another post; the sub detox is more of a pillow effect even though it feels like it lags due to the first 3 days of being in the clear, then it hits you, then it lags or drags on. I would take the suboxone route every time though…much safer.
(Day 9 continued) Tuesday afternoon and evening: After eating good, keeping myself force-ably hydrated and being overly stressed about real life situations; I was getting worn down mentally. I was at this point questioning was this going to go on for weeks? I wondered… “Am I going to be one of those people that I had read about in the “OH SO optimistic forums who took suboxone and that SOMEONE FRIENDS’ COUSINS’ DOG WHO SPEAKS ONLY ANCIENT LATIN had gone thru 4-8 WEEKS of w/d’s before they started feeling even close to ok again due to the LONG half life”? Then you get the following line at the end of these idiots overly negative post…”Oh and by the way….everyone is different though so you might be ok”. Wow! Supportive, negative, stupid and totally contradicting. These kind of comments really F**K you up; cause you now are wondering “Shit, am I going to be ok or am I going to go thru hell?…Is there any middle or gray area”? Bottom line for me… I felt like shit, but not like I was in the literal sense of hell like regular opiates… The suboxone w/d’s, it just f**king bugged… I felt just so numb and brain dead. I guess I would say at this point I was really wondering “Did I maybe do some damage to my brain”? (This didn’t happen though, just telling you what I was thinking and feeling at that time).
15) (Day 10) Wednesday: Woke up Wednesday and am feeling “normal” again, kind of, or so I thought. Feeling numb, no thoughts, zero creativity, didn’t want to do anything and if I did I couldn’t think of something to do. I was also still dizzy or had this bouncing motion. I want to add this also, not only did I feel my brain bouncing, but I would also visually see a bouncing motion, very bizarre and it did make me nervous.
At this point, I thought I was or should be in the second stage (whatever that means) of coming out of this. Cause of the lack of good sleep, I think or I now know I was suffering from sleep deprivation. Wednesday did not improve, got more tired, edgy, jittery and felt like I was wired on a coffee IV drip nonstop. What the F**K, am I going backwards? It’s this back and forth feeling… One day you feel like shit, the next day for a few hours you feel ok… Then it’s back to the same shit, of feeling, just that… like shit. Then new things start to show up, confusion…muscle aches. Hey, I want to clear something up. I would not classify them as “muscle aches” it was more like the cross section of my shoulders, my neck and the base of my skull were soar and cold? It was just f-ing annoying.
(Day 10 continued) Wednesday afternoon and night: This was getting ridiculous, almost getting worse. Stomach was somewhat ok though, I felt soar across the top of my shoulders and looking back I had during this whole time. I guess this was the crawly soar feeling from the suboxones’ point of view, which I was cool with compared to a full agonist effect / w/d’s. At this point of time (Day 10) I just had shit I had to do, that I had to get done and I had to get back to normal, not only physically but also mentally and work wise.
Venting time for Day 10: At this point or day 10 of being in the withdrawal process, this is what I was thinking.
“Since I had tapered so much and for so long, I expected or felt like I WAS OWED a very easy way out. Hey, I have been off all opiates for almost 3 years, I changed my life, I f*****g did my time, my taper and I changed my WHOLE F***ING LIFE! I DID THIS ON MY OWN, I DECIDED TO GET CLEAN WITH OUT FORCE, WITH OUT SOME LINGERING CONSEQUENCE that if I didn’t get clean something would happen. I changed my life cause I WANTED TO! I don’t owe anyone or have to pay up for anything, I have done my time…I DESERVE a free ride….” I wasn’t talking to God, the Easter bunny or some fat clay pot dude… I was yelling at my past, the person I was, the choices I made. That person is still a part of me and either way, both of us co-signed on this “36 month loan” willingly…. Got to pay up sometime hu? My time was up. It’s either “Pay up or keep charging”, I opted to pay up.
Keep in mind the effects that suboxone (an antagonist) and agonist opiates themselves have on the brain when it comes time to face the problem. It’s like the IRS and worse…They don’t seem to care about time, excuses or circumstances; one way or another you’re going to have to pay up. New phrase: Death, Taxes and then there are Opiates.
(Day 10 night time) Sleep was the same. Light sleep but what was pissing me off now is that I had felt like REALLY ok a couple times for maybe 30 minutes here or 45 minutes there. It was now just a tease. Regular opiates, from my experience don’t do this as I have said. When you jump out of the plane with straight opiates you don’t have a parachute and you’re gonna hit the rocks hard. When you jump with suboxone you have a few positive options.
#1: You get to pull the cord at 25′ off the deck
#2: You have time at least to think about what you are going to do…
#3: That you get to pull a cord at all.
Still, I am not taking anything back I have said, it was still, in retrospect 90 Xs easier or let me put it this way….smoother than the hard crash off regular opiates where Hell feels like a resort. I’m just bitching and explaining what “I” went through…
16) Day 11: Thursday: The day was chaotic, things had to get done, I still felt the same though, confused, dizzy, anxiety, mentally and physically tired but unfortunately “tough shit” things had to get handled. So with an overstressed day, the lack of sleep, something was going to break and at Day 11, sure as hell isn’t gonna be me. I thought at this point “Worse case scenario, Day 15 or 16 would be better, so only a few more days”.
Thursday evening: Going thru my e-mails while my 4yr old son was in the hospital and while I had been at the hospital for 2 whole days (while feeling like shit and feeling confused). I had taken a small break from at least 3 of the 5 w/d feelings by staying busy and having to handle at the least 7 out of 10 things I had to do work wise to to keep my house; it was now 7pm at night. I was though still working at 110mph cause I had to and the stress level I was at was still way high when…something came to my attention in a very subtle way.
About 30 minutes had passed while in this unusual work mode and I just realized something, the gun was NOT at my forehead anymore; I couldn’t see it or feel it. I didn’t have the anxiety or that threat in my face or feeling that threat of any minute I would start feeling really shitting again. Being in a crowded environment at the time, with family and staff around (I was working on my laptop so it was pretty mellow) I literally looked left and right and I mean literally. I was thinking any second the gun is going to go off or the situation of 3 bullets and hearing “MEOW, MEOW” like from the movie the Deer Hunter was going to be the threat and anxiety that had been there the past 11-12+ days. I let myself relax, I let my muscles relax and I “figuratively” pulled the trigger and thought about what withdrawal symptoms I should be feeling… Just thinking that I felt like I had a 50/50 chance of the gun going off…. I heard a click. They seemed to be gone… (I was still not out of the woods or in the clear… I was still foggy but not really feeling that hard crappy feeling).
Thursday night: I was burnt out. Holy s**t I actually felt wiped out without feeling drained out. There was actually conversations going on between two old friends in my head, Officer Neuron and Lt. Receptor were talking and seemed to be having a beer. It’s like 2 old friends that hadn’t seen each other due to a falling out and now were shooting the shit and patching things up. I went home, and fell asleep EASY. This was the first heavy sleep I had in a week or more. Keep in mind I was always drained, but sleep at night was just impossible.
17) (Day 12) Friday: Woke up early that morning and I woke up tired. That was a big deal cause feeling tired from waking up was a big difference from being tired from lack of sleep. It’s then that I realized I might be in the clear. By about 11am or so I realized I got a Green light on day 12 (not 100% but enough that I could start to move on). Mentally / physically I was at 90%, I still had a slight sourness in my shoulders but nothing that I cared about or that bugged me to the point that I couldn’t concentrate on things.
I still felt around 90% but it’s a hell of alot better than having felt at like 80%-85% and overall mentally feeling like I was regressing or deteriorating by 5% everyday. So Day 12 was for me the end of this s**tty ordeal (to a certain degree). I can say now of course that looking back on it, I don’t think it was that bad. Again, most of all the stuff I posted up here was from my notes / journal I kept. It kind of helps to keep one and check it to see your progress day to day…..I didn’t go over mine though or check my progress… I just kept notes. I was just thinking common sense wise especially if you have to go thru w/d’s on your own (either way even if you have support, you really are going at it alone); it’ just s a good idea to see your progress so you have some kind of support even if it’s your own.
I didn’t feel 100% till day 25… Listen, what I mean by this is that at day 25, I felt back to normal…Kind of…. To elaborate on this; it’s hard to feel 100% after years of opiate dependence even if suboxone is an antagonist instead of an agonist. You can use these terms but these words don’t mean shit to your f-ing brain…all your brain knows is that “the opiate bliss was there and now it’s gone”….and big terms, definitions and so on are…..just words to us…but they don’t mean shit to our minds… Our brains function on what it feels is normal or how our choices that WE have made have influenced how it thinks it should be working.
Suboxone can be a great tool so you can take a break from your drug of choice, from the PIECE OF SHIT PEOPLE that may have influenced your life…from the DOCTORS that push the oxy’s, vics, percs, fentanyl etc for just stupid reasons “You got a headache, here is an 80mg Oxy, you’ll feel much better and so will my wallet”…from the personal CHOICES you made if you got on this rollercoaster willingly or not…. Maybe something happened though where if you had to take them cause of a real medical issue, they (the doctors) either keep you on them, which is a majority of the cases due to commission, misinformation and or they yank you off them after the cow has been milked cause they don’t want their DOPE sales license cancelled…. Suboxone can get you back on track …
The above paragraph sounds like a f***ing commercial BUT, just so you know, I don’t represent the manufactures of suboxone. I lose money on this site, but since I get so many incredible emails and “thank you’s”… I keep stepping this site up and will continue to do so. I only hope that this site gives you just that…”hope”.
Brian
info@suboxonetaper.com
Comments (117)
Sounds like someone needs to take a valium and chill the fuck out……….or smoke some crack or something, but for a short time though, to get through the bad part…….then file a lawsuit against RB so you can buy more crack and Valium.
Sorry Brian, but she asked for it.
Dear “anonymous” who posted on Nov 5th 2009 regarding my post on Nov 4th, why dont you keep your opinions to yourself?? Or is it that hard for you to get off of your useless soapbox?? I dont see your post as having anything positive to say OR talking about YOUR experiences…nope i guess you are just that type of person that wants to focus on the negative and be judgmental about my posts, well SURPRISE you are 100% wrong about me and my success.
I am posting here to let others know about this drug and MY experience. Perhaps you think you know it all..
Here it is Jan 4th 2010, and i am so happy to post that i am finally free from opiates including Sub. And yes anonymous, Valium helped me ALOT with the terrible anxiety and insomnia i was going thru getting off this crap. I only used the Valium for a short time to get thru the worst part of the w/d’s, and did u know that many rehabs also give Valium for the w/d’s?? Btw- i didnt need your wish of good luck to be free of this crap and get on with my life- its not luck, it came from knowledge, prayer and belief in myself! I never thought that Sub was a cure, i was misinformed by my Dr. and the Sub drug Co. website-big shocker!
And i still think that dr.’s that prescribe Sub do need MUCH more training, after 2 yrs, my GREAT Sub dr. never even called me to see how i was doing and never suggested any kind of taper schedule..
NO MR. ANONYMOUS- I AM TELLING THE TRUTH AND PERHAPS SAVING OTHERS FROM YRS OF ADDICTION TO SUB AND A VERY VERY PAINFUL W/D EXPERIENCE.
IF YOU ARE SO DAMN KNOWLEDGEABLE, WHY DONT YOU EVEN USE A NAME??
IT’S IDIOTS LIKE YOU THAT KEEP PEOPLE UNINFORMED AND SCARED! YOU PROBABLY WORK FOR RB….
Everyone- whether you are on Sub and are ok or want to stop and are afraid, please know that there is hope and that people such as myself have been able to get off of the Sub, be clean and have a life! And yes, the potential for relapse is ALWAYS there, but for me getting off of the Sub was the BEST thing i’ve done and since then i have been focused on meetings, volunteering and helping other opiate addicts….
So its just my opinion to ignore “Mr. Anonymous” and take all of the other posts on here with a grain of salt and do what is right for you!!!
And please dont let anyone scare you-whether its a dr., a friend, an addict, a recovering addict, or anyone at meetings who think they are all-knowing and have the key to life tell you what to do or what not to do.
I am certainly not proud at all to have found myself in a terrible situation with opiates, and i do know the pain and hopelessness that touches every part of life with opiates. And please know that i DONT advocate using any substances. But Sub is a VERY VERY strong drug and i’ve done research and there are ALOT of people out there that do agree that they were not informed of the high addiction potential w/ Sub. Just look at RB’s stupid ads, they DO show Sub as being a “miracle”, and dont show the other side of things. Which is why i am SO thankful for this site.
peace, health and ♥ to all…
karen how much were you taking and what did you drop down to ,to feel that crappy for two weeks? I didn,t understand the 7/8 thing. Is it less than 2mgs.Ive went from four to 2.5 and didnt feel bad.Since then I went to a higher dose for pain management.I would eventually like to just stop, because I feel guilty .I am perscribed 2 8mgs a day for pain and that lasts for over two months and there is 3 refills on the script each time so its not like I am misusing it,just taking my time.I paint cars for a very busy shop and cant afford to go in, if I am not on top of my game. Do I even make sence ? I dont know ? Reading about how you feel has me affraid to go there. Merry Christmas !
Karen have you visited the suboxzone talkzone site? He is a Dr and has lots of tapes on “Are you ready to taper off” physically and emotionally.Also there are many topics discussed there that might be helpful.I was wondering how you were doing.He has an excellent talk about what happens to our serotonin levels when we are on and what happens to them when we sttart to stop.They have to adjust to normal operating behavior, so at first they adjust to the use of sub then when we stop its not releasing anything because its adjusted to the sub use.But in time your brain will start to release the serotonon we need to feel good ,when it supposed to normally. Right know its saying what the fuck and is not releasing any serotonon .This is what Ive learned on his site.I am sticking to my routine of 8 and four ,to get thru this busy time of year.I am glad I,m not doing what I used to do, so i,m ok for now.Wish you the best and would like to continue shareing our thoughts.I cant stand anxiet and depression ,this to shall pass ,you are doing a good job duing what your doing.Your a great mother and maybe slow down and dont be in such a hurry to jump off. This is just my oppinion and I dont know much so take it for what its worth, just trying to help .Visit suboxonetalkzone ,silly,check it out…:)
i’ve been in bed for 4 -5 days tapering, it totally sucks my mind is going crazy i’m going to stay at 7/8ths for a week to stableize. i have to take xanax .5 tid for the anxiety and paranoid freak out moments that creep in. i hate this , i really am feeling down on myself for having gotten myself here, i have huge responsibilities and ive been worthless for the past 2 weeks, just cant seem to get out of bed off the heating pad. no motivation and sheer disgust with myself. i know i have to find away to get positive again and i will, that’s why this rapid taper i was doing has to slow down. it’s not worth it, it really isnt. i just wanted to get down as fast as i could while i had some time off but it has been total hell. it looks like im just going to have to slow it down and get control of the anxiety that just floors me, i’ve never had this amount of anxiety ever!!! hyperventelating, heart palps, pulse rate outrageous. Its been a learning experience to say the least. i went down 4 mg within a 7 day period, i do not advise this at all, my thinking was i could get ahead some while i had some time off work……f### this . So now i’m at about 7/8ths and will stay on this until i feel stable……man this is hard, it really is. I have support and i am thankful for that, my concern is when will this anxiety get better, it really distorts everything, i hate it, i really hate it, and the w/d is getting me so down mentally/physically its just taken a real toll on me, i dont know what i was thinking, well i know i was thinking, guess im just going to suck it up and keep moving. anyone out there have any suggestions on how to get past the fatigue while tapering? i know all about getting your body moving, walking helps but shit come on who really does this, gets the motivation to do it when you cant seem to brush your teeth! Im sorry about the bitching, im just in the middle of w/d and it totally sucks. I have children (single mom)to take care of and i’m feeling like a loser right now because all they see is that mommy is in the bed all day………..they are young 8-10 and it’s taken everything in me to take care of them. Thank God they are boys and play outside pretty much all day long but i still feel like a failure and try hard not to let that negativity linger around. Well Im doing the best i can and it will be worth it in the end, I am making progress and i cant lose sight of that. thanks for the support here, it is a big help. i see alot of “crap” but just ignore it and take in the good stuff. Good luck to us all and i have this prayer is say over and over when i need it “God please do for me what i can not do for myself”, maybe someone will find it helpful, any little thing helps.
Wow Karen you are doing a great job,wish you the best of luck.I am still doing on and off , 4 and 8, for a bit longer.Maybe more 4,s four days a week.Took some ephadra at work and it gave me energy but made me feel a little weird.I have been on wellbutrin for three years ,maybe I need to switch it up ? Thanks for the motivation ,it does help ,me knowing your doing what your doing..
hey steve, i’m still moving on with the taper, finished 4 days at 1 1/4 now doing 1 1/8 for 4 days and see how it goes, right now i’m really really sore all over and take ibrprofen for that. My doc and i have a plan and it should take me about 42 more days at the rate we are tapering. There is no doubt sub helped rewire my brain to not crave opiates, i mean i had been on them off and on for at least 7 years so yeah this isnt my first rodeo but i do have support and it will be my last. i think i was depressed from the opiate use and you may be also, i mean it does screw with your natural feel good chemicals and even on subs, my doc put me on celexa, i’ve been on prozac off and on for years, it seems to be the only ssri that really works but i’ve become so tolerant to it and it peters out so i have to switch out for a while. Just a little history on the depression thing, for me, that’s what was so aluring to opiates after a surgery i had 7 years ago. anyway, good luck to us and keep hope alive!!!
One more quick thought check out suboxonetalkzone.com with Dr. Jeff Junig.Lots of great reading .I dismiss the negative comments and soak up the positive stuff. I think some people out there addicts and post bad stuff,because misery loves company.Anyway you can spend all day reading thru the post,s on that site also.I rambled again sorry.
Hi Karen, I never really feel that fatigued on sub except if I am tapering down too fast.I am sure we all are different.I know that i felt normal when i was put on them,that was three years ago,and i was an oxy user and abuser, for pain managment. I started at 20 mgs a day and felt good at the time I am know taking 8mg one day and four the next.I wonder if my depression/axiety has developed lately from the sub use?The first two years I was glad to be on them , it gave me the time I needed to get my life back together. Since I am so involved with recovery programs I am starting to feel guilty, I think because I feel like its time to do more tapering and looking for the light at the end of this tunnel. Being on sub is part of my recovery program, its just that know I feel I would benefit greatly by beeing free from this drug.I know having to be a single parent with kids and work a full time job theres not much room in there for withdral .See i can ramble too. Its good to see people on this site who are looking to stay clean and free of pain pills and then go to the point of letting go from the sub also. All i know is just for me I am going at a snails pace .GOOD LUCK TO US ALL .
one more thing, it has really hard finding a site that is for all of us trying to get off the subs. I had such a cloudy head the first 6 weeks and it is easy to just keep taking subs. I know for me i needed to stay on sub until the cravings went away, i did have intense cravings the first 2 months on sub, it has diminished and i havent had any cravings in about 4 weeks. I do believe it is intended to correct that behavior of reaching for a pill to feel better. I had been on LT for 6 years, I went through detox once before on subutex about 2 years ago and i really cant remember how it went. That is the other scary thing, my memory is sooooo shot. So here i am again but in a diffrent place in my life and i know the power of LT over my life. So, I’m ok with doing the time its just apart of the process of getting clean and learning that there is no pill that is going to make me feel better. Hard lesson to learn but learning to deal with life clean, no matter what is going on in life. I’ve been through a divorce in the midst of detox and have had my child diagnosed with a learning disability and so that was an excuse for me to “feel good” again but i thought i could and would controll it this time, well that’s a joke, i will never be able to control this beast. So, i’m coming out of the cloud from the first couple months on sub and i’m ready to get off of subs. I’m learning just how powerful sub is and how it is tricky when tapering. I do feel like shit all the time and so i just want to do my time and get on with my life. If anyone has any suggestions of how to combat the horrible fatigue, it is so hard to do anything, really it is ridiculous and i feel guilty for seeming lazy.it really is hard to get moving. Sorry this has been long but i think we all know how we all tend to ramble. Thanks for being here i hope i can help someone going through this, support is so important.
Wow, I’m new to this site, i’ve been searching for something that could help me with this sub tapering nightmare. I was not told about the hellish onset of wd when tapering or anything about how powerful this drug is. At times I feel like i could have just tapered of LT and handled that much better. The anxiety is so horrible for me. I hyperventilate and feel faint when the waves of panic/anxiety hit 3 days after going down on sub. I didnt know it would be like that and its scary when your in the middle of it all. But now that i’ve found this site I hope I can cont. to taper down as fast as possible but without having major wd. I’ve been on sub for 3 months, i have decreased from 16mg the first month to 14 mg, i have been on 14mg for 8 days and have been taking xanax as needed for anxiety, i do understand the importance of not taking more than you need, it really does take the anxiety away so i can function, i was amazed how this drug works for the first time and Im thankful to have some because my mind went crazy paranoid, it really was scary how this panic/anxiety hit me physically and mentally. I guess alot of people have that when tapering and i guess i can expect that from here on out. I hope i dont have a problem getting off the xanax when that time comes but i know i could not taper off sub without it. Im hoping i can taper 1/4 every 2 weeks. Just going down 4 mg has really taken a toll on me which really suprised me, i totally did not expect it. So, i dont want to back track and i want to get off these as soon as i can without going crazy. I have to function, I have children and it’s really hard but i’m totally committed, i just want to know what to expect. thanks for the info on this site. it has been helpful.
Today its my turn to start my tapering down and I will go slowly . Thank you Brian and everyone else for the inspiration.I am hoping to take some vacation time in the spring for the days when its going to impossible to go to work. Wow its weird to think about withdrawl again but I will worry about that when the time comes . Just putting my turn into action now.
Wow Been on sub for three years and really involved in a twelve step program,dont know if I can say I,m clean, but did learn how to be responsible and love life most days .I am taking them 8mg for pain management ,but I am so scared to stop because of the withrawl and I cant miss any work.After reading this I feel reallly afraid. Just wonder what life would be like drug free.In my doctors eye I am doing great but know I question this and he is a great caring doctor.Wish I could go to a detox. Well thanx everyone and God Bless us all!!
Hi Brian,
I just want to say that I’ve been trying to get off of suboxone for the last 4 days. I was on a very minimal dose of 2/.5mg tablets (about 1/4 a day). I have felt like total crap and reading your journal scares the living bejeezuz out of me. I can’t afford to feel this way for 25 days. I have a husband, daughter & career I have to worry about. I do think I will keep a journal of all of my thoughts and feelings because reading yours really hit home for me. Any words of encouragement you can offer to me?? I really need the will power. I’m starting to feel like this isn’t such a good idea now……..
I’ve been on subutex, not suboxone for 3-4 years… 12 mg… I’m tired of it… I’m just not right in the head and it got me through what I needed it to…. so I noticed Brian jumped off at .25mg… that’s still a lot of buprenorphine, if you don’t believe me watch somebody that has no tolerance to subutex take .25 milligram… they will be affected for sure… I have all the time in the world, so I am going to split to .125mgs then even less then maybe that for every other day… heck you can taper in much finer doses… and if I start to feel like hell I will take a does every 3rd day….
Man I hate to hear stories of people abusing suboxone… it will ruin it for people who have a desire to live sober….
If you’re abusing suboxone…. just go back to your DOC till you’re ready to do it right…. please..
so i have been on day off of sub and i tried my best to taper off the stuff. the only issue is i was snorting it and dont know the effects of doing that on my withdrawl symptoms. this first day does not seem to be so bad. I have tried to keep myslef busy, i went for a bike ride watched some movies played video games. it has not been to horrible. the scary thing on here is that people are saying they are still feeling withdrawls after 25+ days thats crazy. really does not give me to much hope for success. I was done to about .5 to .75 for about a week i think before i jumped off. i hope it does not get any worse than this. i cant even smoke a cigarette, well i can but everytime i feel like i am gonna get sick. thanks everyone for you comments they help or make me paranoid. lol
Serb,
Thanks for your post; quick and to the point and it makes sense. Either way sub withdrawal blows but like you said, breaking it down does help. Thanks for your info.
Brian
Suboxone Taper
I have been on sub since 2004 june 25th and in 2006 i went to a non medical detox rehab and the withdrawl really was not that bad.It is a fact that focusing on pain makes it worse.Great website man good info .What people need to know about tapering is that buprenorphine is given in mcgs Micrograms so going from 2mg to nothing is guaranteed a nasty withdrawl.try this break a quarter of the 8mgs and break that quarter in half to eqaul; 1 miligram the reduce.10micrograms every few days as u see fit and it will be no bad withdrawl it just is hard to reduce to taking crumb size amounts but it will guarantee to save you from hellish withdrals.Doctors dont tell you this because there is sooo much money to be made it is insane they dont care about opiate patrienst since there is still a stigma.Sorry i am rambling i drank some shroom tea to help with WDs
Now why the fuck would you go and file a lawsuit against the people/medication that is trying to save your life! It’s people like you that give suboxone a bad name! Thinking you don’t need meetings or be in recovery and just smooth sail away, take the suboxone and live happily ever after. BULLSHIT! Suboxone is NOT a cure! Just a small step in the process of recovery. Good Luck to you! And people should see an example of what NOT to do here. If you keep taking drugs e.g. valium..then your mind is still influenced by substances and you will stay in addictive thinking patterns and RELAPSE ON OPIATES.
Hi Matthew, i just wanted to let u know that i was happy 2 find this site as well. there is a good site: subsux.com that has lots of posts and help. i am at about into day 10 off the subs..and i feel AWFUL!! And before i started on 2 yrs on sub, i was smoking H for about 1 year-mixed in with pain pills..and maybe its just my crummy state right now, but i swear that when i detoxed by myself off those, that the ONE HUGE bonus i am finding is that yes the w/d’s from full blown opiates were AWFUL, BUT at least they lasted anywhere from 5 to 10 days for me. But now coming off this POISON, is HELL. i was down to 1mg a day and had to stop…no insurance, job layoff. So i thought this would be a perfect time to get off them…Well, my dope dealer doctor, NEVER told me about long-term use and w/d’s at the end…SOB. And i have an arsenal of stuff to help me: valium, ambien cr, 800mg ibuprophen, somas…and i am still in AGONY as i am writing this! I swear i am so tempted to find some norcs and taper off of those. I read a story on subsux.com about an attorney- mikes, that got off the Sub by waiting for the 72 hrs or so that sub takes to get outta your system(mostly, i think), and then he tapered w/ norcs and had barely any w/d’s…i have read this method in other places too..
I am sure most readers on here know about the HELL of methadone w/d’s…well i’ve also read that they are finding out that sub is basically a “rich mans methadone”, and both can have many similiar w/d problems..damn f-ing drug companies!!
i have read time and time again that drs. NEVER mentioned the long-term effects of sub, or getting off of it. All they see are $$$ signs..
Once i feel better, (God help me), i am going to try to pursue a class-action lawsuit against these pharma co’s and legal dope pushing doctors! How great 4 them that they get patients hooked on vikes, norcs, oxys, opanas etc, then they get people hooked on sub, and tell people that they can be on sub long-term..no problem!!
There HAS to be a class-action suit brought against these docs and pharmas or they will continue to hurt many more people.
I DO KNOW that short-term, (1 week to 6 months), of sub can be very helpful, but i have read about TOO many people being on this crap for years…and its got to stop!!
Whether a person had/has a legit reason for opiates, or just got addicted, we ALL deserve to be informed and not treated like cash machines for our greedy docs!!
thanks for reading my “manifesto” of sorts…
take care, and best of health to all
This site is about to BLOW UP!!!! I know so many people getting on suboxin. Abusing painkillers really has been a freaking epidemic the last 5years. Thanks for the website. Wish there were more out there like this…
Wow! I just read some more posts on the page. Am I the only one that abused this drug like that? Must be because with my insurance I would pay 30bucks for 120 8mg tablets. Oh well, paying for it now that I’m tapering so damn fast. Going from like I said, 32-100mg’s a day for nearly two years down to 6mg’s in two weeks. Still feel better than most of those posts up there but people exxagerate for stupid reasons. Just want to be CLEAN!!!!!
Well, after about 16months and abusing suboxin the whole time, I’ve decided enough is enough. I’m the one who would take 8-10 8mg’s tablets daily for almost that whole duratioin. And no bullshit, I’ve took 20 or more 8mg tablets in one day about 10x or so. Well, I just did impatient and they gave me 32mg first day, 24mg 2nd day, 18mg 3rd day, 12mg 4th day, 8mg 5th day and then they booted me out for insurance purposes. Followed up with my doc who likes to taper off 1mg every week or two. Well, this is my 4th day out of impatient and I’ve had 6mg the last 3days. Feeling like complete shit right now. I was taking anywhere from 32-100mg daily of suboxin(lucky I never touched H!!! cuz I’d be dead that day probably). I feel I should be on at least 8mg for a week or two. I don’t know but these 6mg are freaking killing me…Love your taper photo! Peace out, Matt
Brian-
Thank you for your post. You know what’s up. I took my last 1mg piece of Sub on Monday 10/26. Now its Sat 10/31, and i feel ok…by ok i mean exhausted and achy as heck. But i must say that this is ok so far compared to cold turkey from my DOC…
I am waiting for the other shoe to drop, hopefully it wont be too bad. And having ambien to sleep, valium for anxiety and soma’s for the restless legs has made SO much difference!! Hey its exactly what they gave me before in detox for $800/day!! Another poster was questioning the valium, but i only got them for this purpose- I wasnt popping a bunch of valium with the Sub. Like i said before, this isnt my first rodeo, and i know myself and w/o anything to help me out…i would probably chicken out halfway through & then have 2 start all over again…and i’ve done that a bunch of times-but i dont want this to be one of those times. I am over it!! It’s my business and i posted to tell my experience and what i do-i dont understand why someone always has to throw their two cents in????
For me, the first thing 2 do is to go thru the w/d’s and THEN i can focus on my sobriety and meetings. How could i focus on sobriety if i cant get off this crap???
i guess some people always have to get on a soap box.
Thanks Brian for telling it like it is and not preaching.
Take Care ♥
Dear anonymous,
Not to worry, i am basically pro at this stuff…seriously. And by the way, for the 2 yrs i was on Sub, i was also on xanax- which i have taken ever since my dad passed 15 yrs ago. Thanks for the advice, but i’ll leave it.
PS- i am not switching one drug 4 another, the valium is just for a few days to get me thru the w/d’s…but thanks for thinking about my well-being!!