Suboxone Withdrawal / Taper 101
My Suboxone Taper...
I have detoxed or gone through the hell-ish withdrawal off of "Pain Killers / Opiates" 3 times. My last and final time (which was my 4th) was off the suboxone after being on it for 2 yrs and about 9 months... Just some background so you know I'm not some novice putting my 2 cents in... Now, straight to what you are here for; some info on what an experience might be like for you coming off the sub / (suboxone).
My 6 Month Suboxone Taper:
1) During 2 yrs and about 9 months on suboxone I went from 16 mg (being at 16mg daily for that time) to 8 mg pretty quick with really no problems, really zero problems. This was not planned exactly. I just didn't need that much...I felt... and I had no physical / sick feeling during this quick drop. Stayed at 8 mg for about 1 1/2 years and then went from 8 mg to 4 mg in a couple months. NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.... BUT AGAIN I TOOK "MY" time.
2) In a 6 month period I went from 4 mg to 3 mg.. I then tapered to 2 mg in a few months. I did this and adjusted from 2 mg to 3 mg down to 1 mg....back and forth till I felt right at 2 mg...I did the taper, I went at my pace... I didn't let anyone else "push me" or tell me what the fuck to do. The final month or so I went from 2 mg to 1 mg then to .50..... I only felt a little shady when I dropped big amounts; like when I would drop from 3 mg to 1 mg to see how it would feel. I suggest you don't do this. You don't feel it right away, you feel it 3 days later... It's not bad though...you can adjust and do a 25 minute quick fix with a chip off your suboxone pill to make you feel better. It's funny how the "quick fix" is...; it is though a pain in the ass when it comes time to the ultimate repair work...ie. when you have to take the jump and get off the opiates or suboxone.
*Quick note* 90% of what I have written below regarding my taper process and what I went through while coming off the sub was from my notes / journal during my taper / withdrawal from the sub... I have edited only a little bit because I now have a clearer head and some of the thoughts I had when writing this were blurred. The following is what I went thru... Your taper and withdrawal process might go smoother or worse. Talk with your doctor first, if you can. If you have a stubborn or ignorant doctor, get a new Doctor before you taper or even if you just want to continue on suboxone.
One BIG point, just from my opinion. There is nothing wrong with long term suboxone treatment or even lifelong treatment with suboxone; again that's just my opinion... I just suggest that you should only quit if you feel like you have changed YOUR life SO much that, the person you were, is no longer alive.....or what I mean, your old self that was using is gone mentally.
SO....
3) Ok, D-Day minus 7: I went from .50 mg to .25 mg and actually less, the rest went in the toilet and I had alot of suboxone left. I suggest getting a $1.99 7 day pill box for your taper (that's what my girlfriend did for me). Sounds fucking lame but it helps you keep track of the dosage / suboxone taper process so you don't cheat (you'll only be fucking yourself if you cheat and it'll just take longer). It's just human nature to make yourself "feel better" and subconsciously you'll take "just a tiny bit more" and that will F**K things up. I am not a pro at the taper thing, I f***ed up a bunch of times; went up down, back and forth etc. Will power helped but my girlfriend (at the time) helped me alot by breaking the sub up and putting them in the daily pill reminder. Support is great but ultimately it's all the decision that you make for yourself in the end. I did feel a little "different" but not uncomfortable at .25 mg but I was ok. I think it was more mental than anything at this point.
4) Last .25mg at 8am on a Sunday morning. Went all day with NO PROBLEMS, slept fine and even had a steak that night for dinner.
5) (First +24hours) Monday Day: Morning...woke up fine, nervous though like I thought literally I would wake up with Death standing in the corner. Went about Monday ok. By the afternoon I was feeling pretty good, Cocky even.."Yeah F*** everything I read online, this is f**cking easy, my taper worked"!!!... Monday Night, actually slept ok.... Nervous still but ambien works great (I had written on my original site that Ambien CR "could or probably" would work better, NOPE, my bad....Bull Shit advice on my part!. Regular ambien kicks your ass right away and puts you right to sleep and doesn't "slowly" release like Ambien CR does; I suggest regular ambien). An additional piece of advice and you can take it or leave it. I would put the regular ambien in my mouth, but then bite it in two. For me it seemed to work faster and when you feel bad...every minute seems to count. Sleep is important but, you have to get up during the day and walk, jog, stay active so as you can get this shit out of your system. Staying active stimulates the natural chemicals that our brains use to produce natural opiates in our system...and with the substitute opiates being gone...it's best to give this process a kick in the ass. When you feel like shit, ...the worst of the worst... get up and walk even if it's just around the room. Next step, walk outside, then jog, then get pissed and fight this fucking nightmare off. Trust me, it helps.... it will hurt though both physically / mentally... it's your best option and speeds up the process.
6) (Day 2) Tuesday: Morning...Uh...Thought I was ok, I was very optimistic. Lost some speed and felt a little slow. Tuesday mid afternoon felt like I was weighted down. Uh oh... This is where I am suppose to write about how day 3 was all out Thermo Nuclear War, The Cuban Missile Crisis Revisited and or then the 7th Seal of The Bible was opened and GOD said unto me "I shall let loose many apocalyptic pigeons and they shall shit all over your custom chopper...." and God smiled and it was ALL GOOD.... Well... Let's talk about day 3.
7) (Day 3 early am) Wednesday: Day 3 is where I should now be telling you that the 72 hour half life, once it's up is not that bad. Ok, sorry, just telling you the truth. The missiles launched...Castro, Khrushchev, Kennedy never worked things out and the pigeons did shit on my chopper. I woke up Wednesday morning around 3am or so and my girlfriend was talking to me, I freaked out I guess. I was crying, shaking, sweating...legs were all jumping crazy style... I was in pretty bad shape. Killed the situation though and went into negotiations with another ambien and broke out the xanax or the big guns to suppress the living nightmare. (suggestion: If you got xanax (from a Doctor), take them (not to much or don't take them if you have had some addiction issues with xanax / benzos), don't take them forever also, just during this whole withdrawal process; so don't stress about the f***ing posts on how you can get hooked on them; I mean come on (as long as you have not had issues with xanax), we're talking about a 2-3 week time frame here). 35 minutes later I was asleep and slept ok. Jumping off of regular opiates, this would have never happened, being able to sleep so quickly even with the help of ambien and xanax would have been impossible.
8) (Day 3 continued) Wednesday continued: Morning, woke up like I had the flu and just the flu. No flu X's 100, no crawly crazy feeling...surprisingly and thinking about it now; the cold sweats were not that bad either but I did get them. I did have restless legs so I just went with it. It wasn't out of control, it just bugged. . Another thing, I was and had been eating even though I was forcing it.
(Day 3 continued) Wednesday Mid-Day: Not good, same feeling, energy now going bankrupt. Split town Wednesday night to a small place outside of town and was there from then on out, or thru the somewhat ruff-stuff.
(Day 3 continued) Wednesday night: Slept ok, took 1 ambien and 1 (one) 2 mg xanax before bed.
9) (Day 4) Thursday: Energy was gone, did ZERO except watch "suspenseful" movies to keep my mind occupied during just miserable, but bare-able conditions, bare-able to a degree I would say, still f-ing sucked. Went for a quick walk that night and felt ok during that time. No major stomach problems though, so laying around was not a major hassle. Let me add, the stomach issues were not a "zero issue" but they were not horrible like coming off of oxy, vics or a full agonist.
10) (Day 5) Friday: Felt ok actually when I woke up..., still shitty but "ok" for most of the day. Went for like 5 walks and mixed it up with very short jogs (like 100 yards) throughout the whole day. I was able to do this due to positive thinking though along with being angry about having to go thru this whole deal...now looking back on it.
Walking or just doing anything physical; this made the feeling or withdrawal symptoms go away fast for a short period of time though. Even when you feel like you have zero energy to do anything; you just have to do it! Trust me, it'll help when it comes night time / sleeping. Any tiny bit of help is better than nothing, hu? You also have to force yourself to eat. I did eat and the problems that usually follow with full blown opiates were mild but still not good. The stomach issues I had with full opiate agonist withdrawals is what I really hated, everything just going thru you and in turn this makes you so weak. The Suboxone, even after almost 3 years on it, didn't give me the hardcore stomach issues I have had before with pills.
This condition of diarrhea dehydrates you and makes the "healing" process take longer cause you are weekend by hunger and basically malnutrition. This is just common f-ing sense...but as we all know; when you have no appetite it's just f-ing tough to think about food. I ate pasta, lots of scrambled eggs, cheese and toast...I know, sounds stupid. Eating this shit would have killed me and gone thru me while detoxing off of full opiate agonists (like pain meds, full opiates etc...). Since I have been thru the real thing 3 other times and knowing how bad it could be; I thought "What can make it any worse so might as well eat as much high protein and high fiber stuff as I can".
I was getting cocky again and stayed this way. If I felt I wasn't hungry... I ate, if I didn't want to walk..., I walked (I sound like Forest Gump?)....and when I thought I felt ok I had a drink (not a good idea and I don't suggest it at all). I drank (alcohol) Friday night and woke up Saturday feeling like I was back to how I felt on Thursday...ok, my bad on my part. Keep in mind you are fighting to keep your body a float a long with trying to keep your mind together and on coarse... so, again....don't mess with anything that can trip you up or that puts you back.
11) (Day 6) Saturday: Relaxed all day, went on my walks, ate, walked...ate... laid around and so on. Energy level still low, confusion, loss of creativity and in addition my anxiety level was running pretty high. Where I was taking my time for my taper / detox to do this was up in the mountains, so there was snow there...it was very cold... I actually was punching snow, like the hard packed shit. I did this cause I thought it would help my brain release some kind of endorphins... Not sure if it really worked, cut my knuckles up pretty good though, but it did get my mind off of how I was feeling (which was like shit) even if it was just for a few minutes. The stupid things we do out of desperation...
12) (Day 7) Sunday: Felt.....nothing. Not good, not bad....just nothing. That is better than feeling like shit I guess. Maybe I did feel like shit but I literally felt like I was in a fog. This part is hard to explain... I was just brain dead it felt like. It did concern me at the time.
13) (Day 8) Monday: woke up 3am wired. Wide awake. Monday was foggy and I was so tired from lack of sleep. Still felt shady like Sunday but now I couldn't sleep at night or during the day. My energy levels were still low. This is what I didn't get. I would be so tired during the day and the previous week I could sleep. Now I was tired all day and come 10:00pm when I wanted to go to bed I couldn't sleep at all, even with ambien.
14) (Day 9) Tuesday: Though I did sleep or had slept kind of, it had been so light that I remember even being in a slight dream state at like 1am and thinking "I am not getting any REM (rapid eye movement) sleep". I am no expert but I do read enough to know that getting a deep good night sleep and being in that REM state is when your body really does the repairing of itself and this is important, obviously. Being at day 9 and with night 7, day 8 and night 8 being the same, I felt like I was leveling out and that I would have to put up with this unfortunate now barely bare-able state for a while.
I could function but I was very jittery, confused, dizzy and when I walked up a flight of stairs, I would get a bouncing motion in my brain. This had not happened before coming off of hard opiates ie. being jittery, wired, fog like confusion and not able to sleep. Keep in mind, hard opiate withdrawals, sleep is questionable....it's like you are so out of it your body shuts down and makes you sleep or when you want to sleep that is when the shear nightmare hits and you are kicking like a mule and paranoia / anxiety is at its peak.
Also, I kept thinking that I was at like day 14 (when I was really at day 9). Keep in mind that the half life of suboxone / buprenorphine is 72 hours and you don't feel "like shit" till day 3 or so. Even though I consciously knew what day I was really at I couldn't break this feeling or thought. Any other opiate / pain med withdrawal lasts a minimum of 11 bad days, or it had for me. Off regular oxy, vics, etc... When you stop regular opiates let's say in the morning, you feel like shit that afternoon... You knew that the w/d's started and that the clock was ticking till you'd relapse or if you hung in there, you could be in the clear in 11 or so days. Off of full blown opiates I would feel shady for 11 or 12 days and bounce back fast after that (with 3 days of feeling a little off my rocker after day 11 or 12)... Don't get me wrong though, suboxone is still the best way to go cause it gives you time to break that "habit" and get your life back to normal. Plus as I'll write about this in another post; the sub detox is more of a pillow effect even though it feels like it lags due to the first 3 days of being in the clear, then it hits you, then it lags or drags on. I would take the suboxone route every time though...much safer.
(Day 9 continued) Tuesday afternoon and evening: After eating good, keeping myself force-ably hydrated and being overly stressed about real life situations; I was getting worn down mentally. I was at this point questioning was this going to go on for weeks? I wondered... "Am I going to be one of those people that I had read about in the "OH SO optimistic forums who took suboxone and that SOMEONE FRIENDS' COUSINS' DOG WHO SPEAKS ONLY ANCIENT LATIN had gone thru 4-8 WEEKS of w/d's before they started feeling even close to ok again due to the LONG half life"? Then you get the following line at the end of these idiots overly negative post..."Oh and by the way....everyone is different though so you might be ok". Wow! Supportive, negative, stupid and totally contradicting. These kind of comments really F**K you up; cause you now are wondering "Shit, am I going to be ok or am I going to go thru hell?...Is there any middle or gray area"? Bottom line for me... I felt like shit, but not like I was in the literal sense of hell like regular opiates... The suboxone w/d's, it just f**king bugged... I felt just so numb and brain dead. I guess I would say at this point I was really wondering "Did I maybe do some damage to my brain"? (This didn't happen though, just telling you what I was thinking and feeling at that time).
15) (Day 10) Wednesday: Woke up Wednesday and am feeling "normal" again, kind of, or so I thought. Feeling numb, no thoughts, zero creativity, didn't want to do anything and if I did I couldn't think of something to do. I was also still dizzy or had this bouncing motion. I want to add this also, not only did I feel my brain bouncing, but I would also visually see a bouncing motion, very bizarre and it did make me nervous.
At this point, I thought I was or should be in the second stage (whatever that means) of coming out of this. Cause of the lack of good sleep, I think or I now know I was suffering from sleep deprivation. Wednesday did not improve, got more tired, edgy, jittery and felt like I was wired on a coffee IV drip nonstop. What the F**K, am I going backwards? It's this back and forth feeling... One day you feel like shit, the next day for a few hours you feel ok... Then it's back to the same shit, of feeling, just that... like shit. Then new things start to show up, confusion...muscle aches. Hey, I want to clear something up. I would not classify them as "muscle aches" it was more like the cross section of my shoulders, my neck and the base of my skull were soar and cold? It was just f-ing annoying.
(Day 10 continued) Wednesday afternoon and night: This was getting ridiculous, almost getting worse. Stomach was somewhat ok though, I felt soar across the top of my shoulders and looking back I had during this whole time. I guess this was the crawly soar feeling from the suboxones' point of view, which I was cool with compared to a full agonist effect / w/d's. At this point of time (Day 10) I just had shit I had to do, that I had to get done and I had to get back to normal, not only physically but also mentally and work wise.
Venting time for Day 10: At this point or day 10 of being in the withdrawal process, this is what I was thinking.
"Since I had tapered so much and for so long, I expected or felt like I WAS OWED a very easy way out. Hey, I have been off all opiates for almost 3 years, I changed my life, I f*****g did my time, my taper and I changed my WHOLE F***ING LIFE! I DID THIS ON MY OWN, I DECIDED TO GET CLEAN WITH OUT FORCE, WITH OUT SOME LINGERING CONSEQUENCE that if I didn't get clean something would happen. I changed my life cause I WANTED TO! I don't owe anyone or have to pay up for anything, I have done my time...I DESERVE a free ride...." I wasn't talking to God, the Easter bunny or some fat clay pot dude... I was yelling at my past, the person I was, the choices I made. That person is still a part of me and either way, both of us co-signed on this "36 month loan" willingly.... Got to pay up sometime hu? My time was up. It's either "Pay up or keep charging", I opted to pay up.
Keep in mind the effects that suboxone (an antagonist) and agonist opiates themselves have on the brain when it comes time to face the problem. It's like the IRS and worse...They don't seem to care about time, excuses or circumstances; one way or another you're going to have to pay up. New phrase: Death, Taxes and then there are Opiates.
(Day 10 night time) Sleep was the same. Light sleep but what was pissing me off now is that I had felt like REALLY ok a couple times for maybe 30 minutes here or 45 minutes there. It was now just a tease. Regular opiates, from my experience don't do this as I have said. When you jump out of the plane with straight opiates you don't have a parachute and you're gonna hit the rocks hard. When you jump with suboxone you have a few positive options.
#1: You get to pull the cord at 25′ off the deck
#2: You have time at least to think about what you are going to do...
#3: That you get to pull a cord at all.
Still, I am not taking anything back I have said, it was still, in retrospect 90 Xs easier or let me put it this way....smoother than the hard crash off regular opiates where Hell feels like a resort. I'm just bitching and explaining what "I" went through...
16) Day 11: Thursday: The day was chaotic, things had to get done, I still felt the same though, confused, dizzy, anxiety, mentally and physically tired but unfortunately "tough shit" things had to get handled. So with an overstressed day, the lack of sleep, something was going to break and at Day 11, sure as hell isn't gonna be me. I thought at this point "Worse case scenario, Day 15 or 16 would be better, so only a few more days".
Thursday evening: Going thru my e-mails while my 4yr old son was in the hospital and while I had been at the hospital for 2 whole days (while feeling like shit and feeling confused). I had taken a small break from at least 3 of the 5 w/d feelings by staying busy and having to handle at the least 7 out of 10 things I had to do work wise to to keep my house; it was now 7pm at night. I was though still working at 110mph cause I had to... and the stress level I was at was still way high when...something came to my attention in a very subtle way.
About 30 minutes had passed while in this unusual work mode and I just realized something, the gun (w/d feelings) was NOT at my forehead anymore; I couldn't see it or feel it. I didn't have the anxiety or that threat in my face or feeling that any minute I would start feeling really shitty again. Being in a crowded environment at the time, with family and staff around (I was working on my laptop so it was pretty mellow) I literally looked left... and then right... and I mean this literally. I was thinking any second the gun is going to go off or the situation of 3 bullets and hearing "MEOW, MEOW" like from the movie the Deer Hunter was going to be the threat and anxiety that had been there the past 11-12+ days. I let myself relax, I let my muscles relax and I "figuratively" pulled the trigger and thought about what withdrawal symptoms I should be feeling... Just thinking that I felt like I had a 50/50 chance of the gun going off.... I heard a click. They seemed to be gone... (I was still not out of the woods or in the clear... I was still foggy but not really feeling that hard crappy feeling).
Thursday night: I was burnt out. Holy s**t I actually felt wiped out without feeling drained out. There was actually conversations going on between two old friends in my head, Officer Neuron and Lt. Receptor were talking and seemed to be having a beer. It's like 2 old friends that hadn't seen each other due to a falling out and now were shooting the shit and patching things up. I went home, and fell asleep EASY. This was the first heavy sleep I had in a week or more. Keep in mind I was always drained, but sleep at night was just impossible.
17) (Day 12) Friday: Woke up early that morning and I woke up tired. That was a big deal cause feeling tired from waking up was a big difference from being tired from lack of sleep. It's then that I realized I might be in the clear. By about 11am or so I realized I got a Green light on day 12 (not 100% but enough that I could start to move on). Mentally / physically I was at 90%, I still had a slight sourness in my shoulders but nothing that I cared about or that bugged me to the point that I couldn't concentrate on things.
I still felt around 90% but it's a hell of alot better than having felt at like 80%-85% and overall mentally feeling like I was regressing or deteriorating by 5% everyday. So Day 12 was for me the end of this s**tty ordeal (to a certain degree). I can say now of course that looking back on it, I don't think it was that bad. Again, most of all the stuff I posted up here was from my notes / journal I kept. It kind of helps to keep one and check it to see your progress day to day.....I didn't go over mine though or check my progress... I just kept notes. I was just thinking common sense wise especially if you have to go thru w/d's on your own (either way even if you have support, you really are going at it alone); it' just s a good idea to see your progress so you have some kind of support even if it's your own.
I didn't feel 100% till day 25... Listen, what I mean by this is that at day 25, I felt back to normal...Kind of.... To elaborate on this; it's hard to feel 100% after years of opiate dependence even if suboxone is an antagonist instead of an agonist. You can use these terms but these words don't mean shit to your f-ing brain...all your brain knows is that "the opiate bliss was there and now it's gone"....and big terms, definitions and so on are.....just words to us...but they don't mean shit to our minds... Our brains function on what it feels is normal or how our choices that WE have made have influenced how it thinks it should be working.
Suboxone can be a great tool so you can take a break from your drug of choice, from the PIECE OF SHIT PEOPLE that may have influenced your life...from the DOCTORS that push the oxy's, vics, percs, fentanyl etc for just stupid reasons "You got a headache, here is an 80mg Oxy, you'll feel much better and so will my wallet"...from the personal CHOICES you made if you got on this rollercoaster willingly or not.... Maybe something happened though where if you had to take them cause of a real medical issue, they (the doctors) either keep you on them, which is a majority of the cases due to commission, misinformation and or they yank you off them after the cow has been milked cause they don't want their DOPE sales license cancelled.... Suboxone can get you back on track ...
The above paragraph sounds like a f***ing commercial BUT, just so you know, I don't represent the manufactures of suboxone. I lose money on this site, but since I get so many incredible emails and "thank you's"... I keep stepping this site up and will continue to do so. I only hope that this site gives you just that..."hope".
Brian
info@suboxonetaper.com
Comments (333)
I jumped from 2-4 mg a day 3 days ago. day one was easy, mostly anxiety about the sub crawling out of my system. day 2 (yesterday) was tougher, at around 40 hours after the last dose the chills/yawning/sneezing set in. I made it to sleep with the help of clonopin last night, but was tossing and turning the whole time. I guess today is where the real problems start. sweating profusely, zero energy. I can feel the 5 mile coal train built up in my bowels getting ready to start its exit. I think the worst part in all of this was the anxiety leading up to jumping off. I said screw it to the taper; I want the pain, the sleeplessness— all of that. I will keep you guys updated throughout this whole thing. Remember, no taper was involved. I jumped directly from 4-8 a day.
i have been on subs for almost 4 yrs now.before that i was addicted first to L-10′s,vic’s,norco,perc’s,oxy’s.fuck it i was addicted to any and all opiates.it started after getting out of the army in ’02.one day when i was visiting hell going thru withdrwal a “friend” said hey i have some methadone,take that for a few days and stop and you will be golden,do withdrawl from anything.all that did was introduce me to something stronger that last longer.to make a long story short i fell in love with methadone.on my best days as a dope head i was taking 280mg’s of methadone a day.it’s so lovely when u dont have to pay for them and can just steal them from a sick family member who was being tremendously over prescribed.anyway girlfriend got pregnet,i was killing myself and hurricane katrina hit.everything came crashing down and i was soooo tired of being a lieing,stealing,waste of space.finally two years after that is when finally got on subs.1st doctor was a piece of shit,only cared about getting paid,on top of 24mg’s of subs i was eating 6mg’s of klonopin’s a day and drinking a 12 pack a nite which became an addiction in it self,pretty easy to let happen when after everything my daughter was born with autism.i now after 4 years have stopped smoking cig’s and weed,no benzo’s,no drinking just 8mg of subs a day which i am tapering down as quickly and comfortablely as possible.i dream about the day i am without drugs of any kind.i know life without it.the 4 years i was in the army i was a drug free machine.hope to one day be able to talk to u brian,you give me alot of hope to get off of sub’s and once again be a dominant force of man nature.just trying to get myself in a position to shut down for a good 3 weeks when i jump off.your site is big time encouraging and i dont care what anybody says but if i lived through withdrawling from 280mgs of methadone after hurricane katrina in a unfamilair place when it look like everything i knew and loved was destoryed forever.(talk about hell like no other,i would rather run head first into a oncoming train than go through those Dt’s again.im excited about my date to repay my loan.peace to u all…
Gosh I have been told so many different things. The home detox I am thinking of doing is TEN days and that is it! They say any longer and will be addicted to suboxone or subutex. They come to you. Monitor you and give you your first dose and wait and make sure. Then they leave you with three days of suboxone or subutex. Then you return and are monitored again and they cut the dose…. and so on three to four times and then that is it. I have been on oxycodone and the doc keeps upping it and I want off but don’t want to be addicted to suboxone Any ideas? I read your taper and that scared me. Any ideas about this two to three week taper>? Thanks so much
If anyone is thinking about jumping off at 4 mg…..don’t do it! I just found out that concentration (even simple tasks) is impossible for 16 days straight, and I couldn’t take it anymore, I had shit to get done! So I got back on it and am going to do the taper like Brian did! This sucks!
Ready To Quit,
First off, I want you to understand I know what you are going thru and the position you are in. Almost everyone who comes to this site has been or is currently one way or another in the same position you are in. I put this site up to be honest and straight forward. All the advice we might receive from our doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, friends, family and so on who is “NOT” in the position we are or “have” been in… no matter how close… don’t or just can’t understand.
I try to be more or less a shadow on this site anymore, and I keep it going cause it gives people like us the opportunity to see what the real fucking deal is. I went thru the same shit everyone has gone thru. The stories are the same, the circumstances vary of course. I want to share a personal story with you (and others like yourself) though and I hope this helps… I am blunt, but please know that I am not being rude or an asshole.
In late 06, early November I think it was I, on my own searched out, found a doctor (after going thru a few) and got on suboxone… “secretly”, not telling my wife (X now), family or friends. It made a dramatic impact in my life, in a positive way. I told anyone associated with the shit I had been taking to “stay the fuck away”. In early January of 07, my wife (at the time) and I were doing laundry at home and I had told her that I had, on my own sought out help and that I was on suboxone cause I had relapsed on pills in mid 06. She was furious that I was on “suboxone”. Ok, so what was the fucking alternative, oxycontin, norcos? I mean giving me a fucking break, it’s not like I went to her for help cause I was in the midst of some massive relapse. I sought out help on my own, got it and followed thru with it for a few months. I told her cause I was beating this, I was succeeding.
My life started to take a turn for the better while taking suboxone. The people I told to stay away did (and I made it crystal fucking clear). Life got better, work got better… and best of all finances improved (I had insurance at the time so the suboxone price didn’t effect me…it did down the road when I lost my insurance)…. Overall things improved. The thing that didn’t get better was that my wife at the time liked to smoke weed (not saying I haven’t in the past) but she smoked every fucking day and I mean every day. In may of 2007, I told her that since I have made a significant change in my life and since we have our son, maybe it’s time for her to make a change.
I got the “bullshit” card pulled on me. “Brian, you’re on suboxone and since you take that (and see a psychiatrist every weak to better yourself), I feel I can do what I want, and if you don’t like it I want a divorce. This was not a long drawn out fight. The divorce decision didn’t last a day, a week or even 10 minutes; I just agreed in about 3-4 seconds, which kind of blew her mind cause she was bluffing, hoping she could just keep puffing (funny ha ha rhyme). I knew the path I was on was going to not only better myself, but in bettering myself, it was going to give my son a father that was strong and that would be there for him. If I couldn’t get the support from my own wife (at the time) after I went and got help on my own (and just a side note, financially I was doing really fucking good at the time)… Yep, we divorced…she wanted to continue to smoke weed everyday (smoking pot is not bad, I don’t do it…but what ever)… Having a beer, a glass a wine every night is ok too…but putting away a case of beer, 3 bottles of wine or a 5th of whiskey…or smoking 3.5 grams of chronic herb…a night…that is an issue….and her issue was smoking pot every night.
(NOTE: I have Legal and physical custody of my son, my X is dating this shit bag I used to get my norcos / oxys on the side from (when my RXs ran out from my doctor) prior to me getting on suboxone…. In addition, as a single dad who still lives in the family home, cause my X split… I got the Parent of The Month Award at my sons school this year in September of 2010… Had to throw that in. See Shit can get better)
Ready to Quit,…….
You have 2 ways you can go at this and that’s about it. You can try to keep it quiet and fake some 4 week flu (which is completely unrealistic) or you can be honest with him. TALK to him and explain that YOU HAVE TAKEN THE STEPS YOU HAVE CAUSE YOU LOVE HIM and that are doing EVERYTHING you can to get better so that you can be the MOM you are and WIFE you want to be to him, a strong wife who realizes that “FUCK THIS ADDICTION SHIT, I LOVE YOU, MY KIDS AND I WANT GET BETTER FOR ALL OF US”. If that fails, you are doing and have done all you can… The key though is the attitude you take towards dealing with this, DON’T directly take it out on him though…. Do all you can to talk to your fiance, explain things, explain the circumstances that lead you into this mess and EXPLAIN AGAIN and AGAIN that you are doing all you can to get better and with the medication you are taking, IT WILL HELP. Also, though this site is called “SuboxoneTaper”… I don’t feel that tapering is for everyone, or getting off the suboxone is for everyone. I don’t know, I am my own person and I made the call I did. Don’t think for a second that I didn’t have 1,000,000,000 second thoughts about going back on it with in the 6 months I was off it….but I didn’t and now, I am good.
You have to do this on your own one way or another but having support from your fiance, future husband, family….friends…whoever does help alot. If no one is there. Do what I did and do it on your own for your kids. I may come off angry but I’m not, I am so there with what you are going thru. I wish you the best and I hope that your fiance understands and realizes there is a way out of this for both of you and of course first and foremost for your children.
Best regards,
Brian
SuboxoneTaper.com
info@suboxonetaper.com
Also, i have read that amino acids and b-12 helps with the energy crash… anyone have any experience with that?
Just wanted to say thank you for this site…. I have been on suboxone since March of 08′ after an accident where i broke my neck. I was addicted to pain killers and soma before that (which caused my accident in the first place). Anyways, i have really pulled my life together. I have a beautiful home, 2 great boys (ages 7-9) and a wonderful fiance’ whom i am to marry in May. I have started tapering down my suboxone for a while now and am taking about 2mgs a day ( mornings) because that feels like when the withdrawls are the worst. But i have one problem… My fiance’ doesnt know im on subs and thinks i am completely drug free. This is a problem because he was with me during my “using yrs” and swears that if he ever catches me or suspects im taking ANYTHING that our relationship will be over. I cant blame him because i was a real asshole using and put him through hell. Even though i am normal on suboxone.. I dont think he will care.. Its a drug and he wants no part of it.. which brings me to my dilema.. I have to detox off these things because i WANT to and im almost out.. (with no dr or anyway to get anymore). But im afraid of the detox and him getting suspicious of anything.. I dont have access to xanax or ambian so those helpers are out for me… Is this detox so bad that i wont be able to hide it from him? Im scared..I love my life and the person i have become and i love him.. dont want to take any chances with losing him… any imput would be helpful….thanks
have only been on subs for a month and started with 4mg twice a day and just started 2 mg twice a day not nearly as much or as long as what i have been reading. anyone no if im still going to go thru the same w/d . i was takeing as much as 320 mg of oxy a day and have gone cold turky the hard way on the floor of a freezen cold cell . couldnt get up for three days. should i try to taper or just try to stop now ?
Hello again everyone. Well, Brian, I’ve made to day 15 after jumping off at 4 mg, and your experience has basically been the same as mine. I’m still having trouble getting a good, full nights sleep, and having sneezing fits, but after day 12 it really is not that bad at all…mostly mental. I just wish I could sleep ya know. Anyone who is worrying about making the jump, don’t be afraid! You can do it!
I just posted, feel stupid as I meant to send my thanks to Brian, I was reading the comments you sent to Joe and messed up. But thanks Brian, appreciate it.
Joe,
I wish I had found your site a long time ago. I’ve read a lot of other ones which only left me feeling conflicted, restless and uneasy afterwards. I have a hard time with the whole “put on a fake happy face facade” I just want to know what the deal is, good or bad or absolute hell.
My own addiction to opiates started 7 years ago. It got way out of control. Everyday was getting worse and I knew the end was near. Eight months ago I started on subs at a high 32mgs a day. I have a high tolerance to everything, you can’t kill me, at times it seemed I was trying. But I have gotten down to 3mg. a day. The last month has started to get a bit hard. I’ve come down from 4 to 3 mg. The worst for me is the depression. Never had it this bad before. You know the feeling where you just don’t have the energy to care about life anymore. That really bothers me because I’ve always had a passion for the good things in life. Even while taking lots of opiates, I was able to find reasons to enjoy life and look forward to tomorrow. I want that back.
After reading all the posts on here I have a little renewed energy to keep going. I want to take my own life back. I’ve let down a lot of friends and family the last few years. If they let me, I want to renew my relationships. I want to somehow give back and help some others get through this ordeal just as you have Joe.
Next month I’ll keep trying to taper and see what happens. Thanks for the chance to have my say. My best thoughts out to all who struggle with this ordeal. If you have good intent and are a good person with a good heart, I want you to know you can do this. And if you feel like you have fallen all the way to the bottom of this hell, look up, look up at the people who want to pull you up and offer a helping hand. You can do this, its not easy, nothing really worth it is easy, but its what we have to do with others help.
Well, Brian, thank you so much for posting this website, and giving me the inspiring motivation to just quit taking this stuff. I’ve been off ALL mind altering chemicals for a little over 3 years now, and felt it’s time to get off the suboxone since I have my “life” back. I, unlike you, jumped off at 4 mg. I had so much trouble tapering that I just said “fuck it” I’m just going to stop taking this medication. If you felt that bad for 12 days off of .25 mg then why go through the agony of tapering, and just make drop, since it’s probably going to last 12 or so days anyways? Well, I did make the drop. I quit taking suboxone 9 days ago, and your site is right on. I’m not having any of the shoulder pain, or bouncing feeling in my head, but it has been impossible to get a good nights sleep, feeling like I want to jump out of my skin, mood swings and just feeling like crap all together! But I’m doing it “one day at a time” and if you are right, then I only have a few more days till this clears up and I can become “the master of my own life” just like you have! Thanks Brian! Your site has been incredibly inspirational to me, and gave me hope that there is life after suboxone!
Wow honesty, I hate that! lol But really really need help. I been on subs for a lil over a year and now I lost my insurance. Sucks bigtime! I dont have 6 to 7 hundred a month for doc and meds so ive been forced to look in “dark places” or quit. Pretty hard to go from 3, 8mg tabs a day to nothing. Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Inhouse treatment not an option, kids, full time self-employed and as i said, no insurance.
ok. So Brian I am enlightened. Been on subs for four years and honestly saved my life. Although I would like to have an orgasm some time in the near future so I am at my jumpin site. Day two was hell on earth. Thriving and thrashin in my bed and rocking like a freak. Day three it stopped but like you said…no energy. Funny how any annoying sound is like fingernails on a chalk board. I am going to follow your advice and keep a journal. Having been through the reall thing twice and rehab twice I know I can tolerate it. I have to say it is a bitch when u think you are feeling better and whamo that damn rabbbit runs over my grave again. I was up to four 8mg a day at my highest and have been an addict since the age of fifteen. Now at 40 I am happy to have had the “loan” to break the cycle. Now it is time to pay up huh? Some funny shit too. You are creative in your anaylsis. Wish me luck.
Jillian, Holy shit… Thank you for your comment and for making feel like “one hell of a cool guy”. You hit it right on the head regarding your experience. Suboxone, is what it is. It is a stepping stone to get you off of that up and down addiction of the X opiate factor (pills, hard dope….whatever). Seriously, what is the alternative….to just taper off of oxys, vics…pain meds of any sort, heroin etc? It’s not going to happen. DON’T Be terrified of the no suboxone stage…DON’T!!! Yes…it’s going to fucking suck for a while, but it won’t be that long or that bad. As long as you have stayed away from all the bullshit…which clearly you have and the people, the lifestyle and so on…. You’ll be fine. It’ll be rough but I got thru it after failing a few times (coming off the sub). I failed cause I had the same fears you did. I finally succeeded though. Shit this was back in late 07.
Jillian, You won’t find anyone who can say that “coming off of suboxone” or taking that finally step is going to be easy. If anyone says that. They are full of SHIT! I dreaded it, I was scared shitless…. I STRESSED hard as I saw my chips getting smaller and smaller knowing the final date I set was it. I bit the bullet and at the worst time possible. The week I quit, my son (4 yrs old at the time) had major surgery…. It had to be done though. I had to end this fucked up cycle. Some people may need to stay on it for god knows how long, maybe forever… I don’t see a problem with it. For alot of us though, we just want to be free from this hellish nightmare that we have lived and to put it behind us. I chose to not be a slave to who I was and decided to bail on the sub routine… Once I did, I never looked back.
You are clearly on the right track, you are clearly ready. Don’t stress or sweat it. Dont RUSH it… When you are ready, you’ll be ready. Thanks again and the best of luck to you. You’ll be fine.
Brian
SuboxoneTaper.com
The bottom line is this: it might suck to go off suboxone in the end, but I’m a hell of a lot better equipped to deal with the discomfort/side effects/withdrawal NOW, at a year & a half off drugs & alcohol; I’ve done a lot of hard work, I’ve committed to AA, and I now have a bunch of supportive friends to see me through…NONE of which I had the day I was fired from my nursing job for shooting up Dilaudid in the bathroom all day long; early sobriety was a bitch, & involved jail, attorneys, & seeing myself on the evening news every night for a week while they slowly savored every gory detail for all to see. Barely made it through all that WITH the suboxone; don’t think it would have been possible without it. I’ve heard lots of “horror stories” about suboxone (usually from people who used or abused drugs but never made it to full-blown DRUG ADDICT status like I did–getting off opiates, I wasn’t considering all the long-term ramifications of suboxone, I didn’t spend hours researching it on the internet before making my decision–I just cried & begged & pleaded with the nurses to do something, ANYTHING, to give me some relief before I put a gun in my mouth (seriously considered it, too). Now I have the much-needed coping skills to hopefully ride this thing out…
You have no idea what a service you are providing for us frightened suboxone taperers who are dreading the final tasper…you express WAY more than a physician ever could (or an entire book on the topic, for that matter); you’ve actually been there…PLUS, you know about opiate addiction too. As far as I’m concerned, you are an “expert” on doing a suboxone taper (my M.D. actually recommended your site); I was down to 2 mg/day for a week, from originally taking 32 mg/day a year and a half ago. My experience is EXACTLY like yours–I went from 32 to 24 with no problem; then went from 24 to 16 with no problem; started feeling “cocky” and lowered my dose to 4 mg–STILL no problems (as in , no noticeable difference whatsoever). Went from 4 to 2 & that’s when the problems started–the old familiar insomnia coupled with restless body syndrome, the runny nose & inability to concentrate or sit still for any length of time (like not even being comfortable sitting thru an AA meeting); then the heebie jeebies arrived, making me feel like I was crawling out of my skin. I began obsessing about my bottle of suboxone, thinking the exact same thing I thought when a full-blown IV Dilaudid addict–I KNOW I have a serious problem, & I KNOW I need to eventually get off this shit–but RIGHT NOW I need to calm down, just a little, just something to take the edge off, PLEASE??? Needless to say, I was crabby & impatient & easily irritated by people, biting their heads off at the drop of a hat. I ended up raising my dose again, & now I’m back to a comfortable 4 mg. But I’m getting ready to try again, & THIS TIME I’m going to have my boyfriend dole out my daily dose…maybe this is a chicken-shit approach, but if the taper from 4 to 2 was that bad (and it wasn’t completely unbearable, though it was right on the border…and also brought back a lot of first-hand memories I’d rather forget…now I know what to expect, I’ve cleared my calendar of all responsibilities (aside from AA, of course), & I’m printing out your journal entries for support), I’m TERRIFIED of the no-suboxone at all stage! It’s not painful in the sense of broken bones or anything…but the constant, relentless, seemingly never-ending side effects over several days is torture! By the 4th morning I remember waking up & thinking, “Oh, God, there is another entire day looming ahead of me! When will this EVER END????” Your journal entries tell me when, precisely, I can expect to start to see a light at the end of the tunnel. I know I can get through it if I know others have done it successfully. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! You should be awarded a million bucks for your accomplishments, because you are uniquely qualified to help ease suffering when no one else can!
Dear AquickFixTurnedtoHell,
Over and over and over again I have and will continue to say that suboxone is a tool for “us” who want to kill that repetitive lifestyle we have been living or are living. I have went thru what you are going thru now…along with so many others on this site. The “people” that have written on this site are just that…people…. In the land of “internet” (minus the yellow brick road)… We can all relate. I am by ZERO means lecturing you… What I am doing is telling you that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It is hard for me to keep up on this site cause I went thru what you are going thru now… It tears me up to see others go thru what I have went thru. I of course questioned at one time or another, during my recovery “is this ever going to end”… I had questioned myself also after getting off the pills / opiates and in addition getting off the suboxone. The question was so stupid and simple…but it was “Am I or will I be ok”…?
Keep on the path you are going. Don’t turn back. There will come a time, I can assure you…that even the thought of the lifestyle that you have lived and the people you have hurt…. will become a distant memory (it takes time though). To achieve this and to stay the course… never forget though the pain it has caused both you and others. To cut all the bullshit… Never forget how bad it hurts (yourself) physically and emotionally… Hold on to that though so it keeps you from going back to this hellish trap.
I was on oxys, vics…etc…. I quit…then failed…then quit…then failed….then got on suboxone….tried to get off of it and failed… The thing is with suboxone is, it is a buffer…or really, it gives you a break from that lifestyle or that roller coaster ride of stressing. It won’t last long if you really think about it. The shit you have gone thru for months or years…. A month or so of getting yourself straight so you can walk from this shit is nothing.
You are doing the right thing, you are taking control and “GOING” thru this cause you want to, to better yourself, family…kids…etc…. (if you have kids)…. In the end… You can leave this all behind and move on.
Best of luck to you!
Brian
I quit the sub back in late 07… I have never looked back.
Ok…so today was day 3, and it was the worst. Absolutely horrible, horrible chills. My skin felt like ice cubes were all over it even though I had about 2 blankets on, and I kept breaking out into cold sweats. I’m crying over EVERYTHING-mostly the pain this is causing me. It’s now 3AM, and I am feeling a bit better. I hope tomorrow won’t be as bad, but who knows.
I just want to say Happy Holidays to all (no matter what denomination you are) and wish everyone a safe and clean New Year! I snorted heroin for about 8 months and used subs as a means to avoid the horrible and nasty withdrawal period that would follow when I couldn’t afford my extremely expensive habit (more than $60-$80 a day sometimes). I don’t make *that* much money per hour, as I just graduated college and am looking for a new job. Anyways, I decided to get clean for good since I was sick of the depression, anxiety and moodswings that would always occur when I would realize it’s not feasible for me to do this all the time. Oh, how blissful that beginning couple months was! I would just be knocked on my ass all the time. No one besides my boyfriend knew of this habit. I don’t even drink or smoke, but addiction definitely runs rampant in my family which is why I tried to avoid those things at all cost. Of course, it had to hit sometime…right when everything was going so well for me. I went through my $4000 savings. I loved my habit so much in the beginning, it gave me so much energy and made me feel quite like a superhuman! I thought I could be one of those people who could keep it all under control and not get hooked—oh, how wrong I was! It only took one bag and from that day on, I couldn’t stop getting them. I had a nicely padded bank account with more money arriving every week, so I thought I would never go bankrupt–ugh. I learned that in 8 months, despite my salary from my job, and my bank account–I was completely broke and in utter despair. I would go to cash advance places just to get money–and not pay them back . The highs were getting lower and the lows were also getting lower so to speak. so I bought some subs off of the dealer and when those ran out, I bought some more off of other friends However, connections eventually dried out since I was going through way too many subs. I realized that I would have to wait 2 or more weeks to get them. It’s 4 days before Christmas, and I just want to be clean! I didn’t know you should taper off them rather quickly-but I want down to 4MG to 2MG to about 1.33MG in about 5 or so weeks. It’s been over 2 days, and I haven’t suffered all that horrendously. The worst for me is not being able to control my body temperature. I find it hugely annoying. I’m always developing goosebumps for 10 minutes. Then I’ll get a hot flash. Those are even starting to subside. I’m not having trouble sleeping–if anything, I’m sleeping TOO much. I have a bit of stomach pain and cramping as I would only use the bathroom maybe once in a week and a half if I was lucky. I have solid stool and not diarrhea. I just notice that my withdrawals are mainly psychological now. I am used to my head being in a bit of a buzz-even on the suboxone. But, now all that’s left is this sobering reality. Everything just seems so dull and boring, and I am soo lethargic. I also feel just a tad bit depressed, while at the same time just feeling apathetic to everything. I’ve had problems with depression in the past before my drug habit started so the psychological is probably going to hit me pretty hard. I used to take adderall and klonopin. I find that adderall helps a lot with energy for detoxing (a low dose-mind you). But if you’re prone to serious jitters, I wouldn’t recommend taking it. It just helps if you have to do stuff that requires work and for you to be alert and awake. In case I don’t feel better in the next 10 or so days, I have an appointment scheduled to get on my own script of subs, but if I’m feeling 100% fine a few days before the appointment, I’m going to cancel it. I wanted to re-try with a new taper, and plus I am starting a new job soon, and I’m continuing on with my education to grad school, and I don’t want to relapse. Actually, I scheduled that appointment out of despair the first day I was feeling really bad, and I haven’t canceled it since. I cannot wait until I can feel the full range of human emotions again-I’ve been such a walking zombie. The subs have killed my sex drive, so I cannot wait to be intimate. I want to be able to smile and laugh and not be utterly depressed and miserable. I want my old humorous and creative mind back. I envy my old self. I never want to go back to using!! It takes a lot of willpower just to say I am NOT going to go buy a bag of H! Addiction is a serious illness that not a lot of people understand, and I never understood it at first. I used to look down on anyone who did hard drugs, shame on me. I’m such a hypocrite. Now I feel such empathy for users, it’s unbelievable. I hate how society attaches such a stigma to drug users. Lumping us in with the lowest of the low people. A lot of us want help but are too afraid to get it, and a lot of us (especially in the U.S.) cannot afford the treatment. To be honest, if I didn’t have insurance to cover at least the prescription of subs-My H habit per month would almost equal what it would cost to stay on subs for a month without insurance. Pretty fucked up, isn’t it? I wish they would develop more treatment options for addicts…and in the management of pain. I’ve heard of a few promising ones that say they are as effective as the strongest opiates but give no withdrawal. Withdrawal is killer, but I’m going to stick this out! Good luck to anyone wanting to get off of subs =)!
Love this post. He’s pretty right on and much funnier than my journal. I was on subox for 2 yrs and didn’t taper as well as Brian. In the end I was just taking a crumb every three days and not having any issues. But man it doesn’t matter. Once you stop alltogether. 3 days later it’s on… Way easier than regular opiates but still a bitch. Much less intense yet annoying.
My thoughts looking back. I’m currently on day 12.
Day 11 sucked a lot more than day 10 for me. Day 12 is OK but here’s the thing.
Make sure you have enough food in your house and eat. I didn’t feel like eating day 7,8,9 and didn’t have fresh produce in the house so I think that’s why day 10 sucked. I was able to get some Vietnamese (nice heathy balanced) take out finally on day 11 and was so hungry I ate 2 whole meals. So I think that definately helped me feel better.
Heating pad for sore back is also my best friend. Get one of those before you jump off. Also the Ambien with a little xanex for the first week is a life saver.
Good luck everyone and Thanks again Brian!!
I’m stealing all your good lines for when I have to explain this to anyone else!!! Only here in Oregon I’m gonna use apocalyptic geese because we have so many of these all over the place right now I can’t walk anywhere on the grass downtown Portland without stepping in it…LOL
Anyone not appreciating what you’re up to here hasn’t experienced the true hell of turning one’s life around from a serious opiate addiction. I’m currently at 1mg every other day (.5mg a day.) The biggest problem I find with tapering from subbies is breaking down an 8mg Sub (The only size I’ve seen and all I have the option for at this point in my battle) to anything lower than 1mg, which is 1/8th of the orange stop-sign shaped pills. I like the shaving suggestion, but I’m hoping that the taper from 1mg every other day won’t be too tough. It’s the day before Thanksgiving now and I have until Christmas to do this. I’ve been on Subs fir almost exactly a year. Anyway, to he’ll with these haters, what you’ve done here is wonderful and is the best I’ve found online. Keep fighting my comrade in arms, we both know kicking is the easy part. Staying clean is the real battle isn’t it? Good luck!
You people that post stupid comment about abusing and misusing subs are ruining it for people who truly use it properly after being on subs for five years and every intention of staying on it forever my doctor has up and stopped prescribing it just like that because of people like you unbelievable there’s always retards that ruin it for everyone else
My wife and i have been opiate addicts for 10yrs. We both started around age 21 ( the decade i call the partying yrs comes next). Needless to say we went from occasionally perks to full blown ocs in the first 2 yrs. We maxed at about 240 mgs each, or i was buyin 6 80s a day no scrips. i had most what everyone else had business, cars, house, and kids[4]. So after business fell apart 4yrs ago(btw u really cant keep all the money), we finally got on this wonder drug suboxone. The information on subs at the time was total BS. We were set for life long maintenance YAY. Oo maintenance is ok if ur 60 with cronic pain, or maybe younger. Ok so last year i had enough, i told the doc he could keep them i was on bout 24mgs a day. Wow i tapered but thought i could deal with the w/d, i laid sick in the head for 2 months or 3 using somethin bout every 12 days to restart cycle(this is were horror stories come from) Anyways went to work out of town back on subs and hydros, then my buddy had a plan he went to FL, and i tagged along. i went to make money cause i was really over pills haha what a joke. 3 mths later me and wifey was takin whole scrip. So i stopped going and got on subs, we tapered down to .25mgs each over the next 9 months i hadnt worked at all. So 9 days ago we made the final decision(and i say final cause i truly beleive many we fall a few times before they get over it) and this happens with the little lies of it will be ok and i can do just a few, or only when i party. Anyways our story of w/ds reads like urs but maybe not so bad. i have read many posts/forums/utube, and all the rest. THIS is the only post i have found with a true account of the facts of suboxone w/d. Were so happy to know that its almost over (w/ds) And for anyone else who reads this if u dont know opiates WILL steal ur life. U become someone totally else. Know that there is an end and u can stop. Brian i must say awesome site and u are a true inspiration for us. tyty
I starting laughing so hard when I read your post. I totally forgot that I wrote that… I did write that though when I was going thru the hard times. To me, it was the 7th seal…*lol*. Funny shit. Thanks for your comments, you actually made my day.
Truly amazing and most definitely inspiring. Thank you, you just made my day a lot brighter.
“… the 7th Seal of The Bible was opened and GOD said unto me “I shall let lose many apocalyptic pigeons and they shall shit all over your custom chopper….”"
Seriously, that one, in its own made my day brighter.
Hey I really appreciate this site and reading through all of this. Currently I am down to 4mg after taking 8mg for the first two and a half months. It’s my 7th day since the drop and I am totally fine. I have a visit on the 23rd, 11 days away, and I plan to drop to 2mg after that. I was addicted to heroin from May of 2009 up till August 2010. I just wanted to say thanks for this write-up and the fact that you’re a straight shooter. This is a no bullshit entry. Looking forward to being clean for good.
Thanks for your story and for all the responses that have come before mine. I was in a bad car accident (almost died) and was on percs for a year, I actually needed them to manage pain for a year. After that period I knew the nerve damage and muscle pain had subsided but I liked the feeling so kept persuading my doctor to give me more. Wasn’t long before I was out of a months supply in three weeks then using the BS ‘going on vaca, can you write the script early’ excuse (worked several times). Eventually the fun was over and she told me she was tapering me off. I wasn’t ready to be done at that point and went and found a sub doc to keep me going when I was in between script fills on my percs. Doc started me off on 24mg/d which I was only taking 50mg a day of percs so this seemed like a way high sub dose. Finally after 9 month gradually tapering down to 1mg/day I through the rest of my subs, percs and a few oxys I had down the toilet. I’m only 26 and some of your stories have inspired me to get my shit together before I lose it all before it even begins for me. I never had a problem being addicted to anything prior to this. Something about opiates turned me into one. Have never been to an AA/NA meeting and to that I say whatever keeps you clean. I am using some xanax as well as ambien along with a drug called Tramadol which my doctor has given me to manage ongoing pain problems in substitute for opiate agonists. The tramadol can have addictive affects too, but for me it is really helping the back pain, restless legs and the dreaded crawly feelings I remembered from before when I had run short on something. That’s my story though, I’m 3 days off and I know it’s coming worse, but it’s forums and blogs like these that are helping me get ready for what’s to come. For me it’s always easier when I can anticipate the blow. Anyways, Thanks again and I’ll be in touch.
wow thanks for all of the CORRECT INFO. i just got out of 21 day rehab for a sub addiction that followed a percocet and amphet. addiction and let me share and agree with you–WHATEVER U DO PPL DONT LET THESE DOCS FUC’ WITH U THEY ALL DO my sub dr. had me on 24mg per day and told me i could be forever, never talk about a taper then i get into rehab and come to find out that fuc—– dose was WAY TOO HIGH. the rehab tapered me off the subs in 7 days! starting me at 10mg/day ending at 0! so please PLEASE learn from me-DONT STAY ON IT LONG AT ALL and dont trust these drs cuz they just want ur $$$$$$$$ let them tell u how to take em then go home and dont follow it. i know for me i did 10mg first day then 8 6 4 2 1 0 right in a row per the instructions of the rehab i was in which so happened to be #2 best in the USA! so they clearly know their shit unlike these legal drug dealing doctors!!!! good luck to all
Tomorrow will be 1 week since my last dose of sub. I had tapered down to less than .25 once a day then skipped one day, then two days & after the third day skip, I totally jumped off the sub-way!
Thanks for keeping it real with your journal. I’m trying not to analyse every ache, pain & emotion. I have been on subs for over 2 & 1/2 years. Pain Mgmnt. Doctor would like me on them forever. Boy is he in for a big surprise.
The tease is the hardest part. Feel great for an hour or two & then bam, hit the brick wall again. Each day I think, this could be it & then it’s, will I ever feel normal again? Todays right temple headache is from hell. It doesn’t stop throbbing. I’m living off of Tyleno & Motrin, but, it still throbs.
One week tomorrow. Hopefully things will keep subsiding each day. Your journal has helped me keep things in perspective. Thank you. I do take Ambien at night, & do manange some sleep. Wake up pretty good & after a couple of hours the anxiety creeps up pretty fast. One day at a time.
Hoping to see the light at the end of the tunnel – SOON!
No problem, thanks for the comments. Keep going, you’ve gone this far…you’ll do just fine.
Brian, your site is the best. It had great info and was a releif to read during the suboxone withdrawal. I’m on day 14 and am still having all day headaches and legs ache like I ran a 10k. Hopefully by day 25 I’ll be 100%. Thanks again for the site. D.
Awesome story Brian. Really inspiring. Have you had any issues with PAWS?
My experience was very similar. One difference though- I definitely had a shift around day 5 where the more ‘acute’ symptoms started to quickly decline (i.e. RLS, jittery hellish feeling), so for those of you who are gonna give this a shot, it may not take a full 12 days.
I also worked full time during the withdrawal. As an engineer i have to force myself to concentrate on the details of my work and it really helped me keep my mind off it. (I figure if you’re gonna feel like shit, you might as well be at work).
I also used some pretty serious prescription sleep meds and managed to sleep almost a full night every night of my withdrawal, but if you’re gonna go that way i would caution people to limit it to 7-10 days. I hear benzo withdrawal can be worse than suboxone.
Brian-your extremely lucky you have stayed sober without meetings or anything like that. I admit there are some shitty meetings like you mentioned where everyone only talks about their using, how bad it was, and how they wish they could use blah blah blah. But there are good meetings where people actually talk about how good their lives are today without ever mentioning using. They focus on the program, how to live life without mind altering substances, the steps and how to live life one day at a time. I am referring to AA not NA because all the NA meetings I’ve been to are like what you mentioned. And I’ve never been addicted to alcohol..only opiates and other substances. I tried to the suboxone alone with nothing else and I relapsed a month after getting off of it (go figure) because it was the only tool I had to deal with cravings. Thought if i only took the opiates away because that was the only problem, but guess what, its me that’s the problem..not the opiates. Took a long time for me to understand that. This time, I got on sub for two years, went to meetings, worked the steps, tapered off the subs and I’ve now been clean for 3 years! Sorry for the rant but I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there. Good luck to everyone and know that it is possible to live life happily without opiates. NEVER GIVE UP! IF AT FIRST YOU DON’T SUCCEED…DUST YOURSELF OFF AND TRY TRY AGAIN!
Brian,
Thanks man. I’ll email you with my contact info. I’m going to see if I can get a short-term script for KPins and/or some form of Benzos and a few Ambiens this week to get over the hump. This time I’m hopeful I’ve made enough life changes so I don’t relaps on opiates again. I don’t even miss the shit anymore. Like you said, its like a loan that eventually needs to be paid back in a lump sum! haha. I think I continued to use for months because I didn’t want to W/D. Poor excuse hu? The F’n jumpy/crawling & anxiety & depression of Sub detox sucks. I got weak last Friday and bought an 8mg Sub. I’ve broken it into 8 days. I thought jumping off at 2mgs would work, but apparently I need to try 1mg for a week… I don’t want to go thru this anymore. Its getting so old. You know what I mean-
Joe
Joe,
Thanks for the comments. It took me 3 times also coming off of the pills till I realized I had to leave all that shit behind. 2006 I got on the sub…. late 08 I walked off it. Dude, I have been in the clear ever since and have NEVER looked back. This transition time is up to you and you alone, and brother, you are….from how you are venting, on the same track I was… This is from my perspective a good thing, cause it seems you are going to be giving the finger to the “shit” that has been and had been jacking you up. Fucking A… In regards to what you wrote about… I went to an AA or whatever the fuck it was meeting 2 times…. it was like dangling a steak in front of a starving person… This is how it was “Hello everybody, please state your name, why are you here and then…. let’s all talk about how bad we “want” our X factor,… then glorify it….and then….weee…..weee…..weee…. WE ALL GO HOME happy,…. and after that……then you’ll FUCK UP cause the seed is planted….. and we’ll see you next week” Yep AA is a referral business. If everyone was good and well, where would the funding come from?
(side note:) You know, I could be overly articulate and write or publish this site as such “In the overall statistics of the patients and their recovery of opiate addiction within the established parameters of a group setting….bs….bs….bs..” I just choose to just speak my mind….. Just saying this so everyone knows I am not some wacko hermit… I’m 34, ride dirt bikes, my chopper and have my business back up and running now….and I just started breeding small horses (ok, the horses thing is a joke).
Joe, as you know… It’s all up to us in the end. I felt as you did, I road the same ride…. Unfortunately I am sorry about all stuff you lost both personally and also in regards to your physical items which I’m sure you obviously worked extremely hard for (by NO means am I being sarcastic AT ALL). For me,… all that does remain from my fuck up is my chopper, the bike could never go…. THOUGH, DON’T think it didn’t come to mind and that was just fucked on my end. Joe, sorry it came to all it did. You CAN get thru this or really it seems you already are. Sounds like you are a hard ass or once were…and still can be. Dude, you know from this site I am not bible a basher or some rehab asshole… I just know what you went thru cause I had been there and went thru it. Apples to apples; the Mercedes is gone, the F-250 is adios, I kept one of my dirtbikes and like I mentioned, my chopper……long gone is the 401k, the savings, the house…. I do though have my life, and I am rebuilding quickly. You’ll do the same. E-mail me…and we’ll shoot the shit. info@suboxonetaper.com…. I’ll give you my direct e-mail after that.
As fucked as it is, as as stupid as this sounds….you’re on a positive road.
Brian
Intense words Joe. Things are out of control for me too. Your story is a wake up for me. I’ve been using Suboxone between getting my Oxy’s. Unfortunately I was prescribed pain meds, but after 12 weeks I wanted to continue to mis use the stuff cuz I liked the way I can talk to anyone and I feel confident. I’m afraid of the withdrawals from Suboxone and Opiates. I have been back and forth for almost a year. I can’t miss work or be sick. WTF. But thank you Joe. Post more often.
Jaime & Brian, & All;
Can’t thank you enough for sharing your no-BS candid personal account of the Sub-Taper and drug use experiences. It feels amazing to know I’m not alone thru this WD process. I identify with 99% of your journey. I was clean for 6 months after 2 years of 512′s & OC’s. I was even off Subs for 3 of those months when on 7/4/09 my buddy tossed me a 30mg blue generic M Perk. That run lasted 10 months and could have killed me. This is my 3rd and by the grace of GOD last attempt to change my opiate-driven quest for mood-lifting substances. I hope I can reach the person ( even 1 person) who’s chewing some Perks, snorting some OC’s or graduating to Heroin. Because trust me, its not “if” but WHEN you’ll do H if you continue to dabble. I played with fire and inevitably burned my ass off. I was cocky, somewhat arrogant about my 3 year rise from a casual habit to a full-blown “ADDICT”. I had a great relationship with my daughters, good job,money, girlfriend, self esteem, Harley and a great life. EVERY aspect of my life took a hit during my run.. I kept hearing’”he hasn’t hit his low” or “he’s not ready yet.” BS man, opiates F’d up my life big time and the price to pay is HUGH. Thank GOD after eventually getting to the point of IV Speed-Balling ( coke & H ) $200-$250 an F’n day I’m still alive. I got to the point where everything was planned around my use and whether I had the strength to emotionally or physically do the simplest things or to just socialize. Eating and taking care of myself was in the way of getting high. Sorry for the cliche’ but I got sick and tired of being sick and tired… Don’t get me wrong, I have my beautiful children and my life, however, I could have flushed it down the shitter. Nothing I loved made me happy or mattered to me towards the end. Most of my material things were pawned or sold. I felt as though I was watching life from the bench. I was the walking dead. I kept saying this is the last time… Every day was my last time- I was in total Denial man. Although, other than track marks, I thought I looked good. DENIAL… I was 170lbs, ahd lost 15 lbs of muscel and a PINNED pupils 24/7… This isn’t me. I wanted my life back more than the pathetic existence I was living as a “yuppie”, BMW-driving, Gym-going, clean cut guy… I was a fraud! A paper shell of the man I was before opiates became the most important thing in my life. I tried rehab but it made me want to use after talking/sharing stories with fellow patients. After 2 days I was ready to jump the fence and shoot up. Sick but true. AA/NA meeting were the same. I know the NA network works but it wasn’t for me. I pissed thru my Harley and $15K in savings in no time. The GREAT new is.. there’s life after OPIATES! Yes I’m all too familiar with the hell of WD from Suboxone too, but it can be done. Stay positive, connected, busy and have the desire for the quality of life without the BOGUS feeling of synthetic shit.. It took me 3 months to get my energy back and sleep patters back after Subs/Opiates. ***I blew it because I thought I could just use one more time… SURE, my one time lasted nearly a year. I’m sooo tired of the depression, roller coaster emotions and just overall sense of anxiety of the exhausting process of detoxing. We need to rely on each other. Our sustained success is predicated on a network of supporters. Stay away from all the negative blogs and friends who use and want us to be high with them. I’m just starting the 48th hour of my Sub tapper and I know it wont be easy, and the pain is unequivocally coming but I want a better life more than my fake HIGHS. More than my scamming, Fd up days trying to get my shit. I have to live with damaged trust from friends and family, and scars on my arms but failure isn’t an option. Stay STRONG… Be TOUGH… Find whatever you can relate to to motivate you to break the cycle. Respitory suppression and death are REAL. So is jail buddy…It can be done- Good luck my fellow addicts! JP
ok… I have read all the blogs and sites out there… wow… over load. this is the best site by far. Left a question a few moments ago and feel dumb… jumped the gun.. Read everything now. I was in car accident.. 4 yrs on dr. oxy. new pain dr. doesn’t prescribe oxy, other meds tho. Sent me to detox. Put me on Suboxne. didn’t investigate. OMG!!! hardest thing I have ever done. Started on 2-2mg tabs 3 x a day. went to 1 mg tab 3x aday. fine until third day full blown wd. Then now on .25 mg at 9pm. fine 3 days ago. then 3rd day full blown wd. Never wd off anything before. would take a crumb to get through. Started on suboxone on July 1, 2010. WOW. Probably stepped down too quickly. had no idea, my fault. Niave to say the least. Can’t do a thing. Is is going to be the same when I taper off the .25mg crumbs? Thank you.
i have read all of the posts, and i feel optimistic. i am however a little concerned because most people have said they started at 8 or 16 mg daily. well i started my suboxone treatment in march 2010 and i started at 32mg daily and now am at 24mg. i have been on for a little over 4 months but i am concerned about the high dose. i previously was using vics or percs daily but over past 4 years went from vics to oxys to heroin (iv) back to vics and percs where i ended.. any suggestions or info about the high dose? and thanks to all who share their experiences.. good luck and god bless!!
I wanted to add a few things to my previous post that I think are important to the success of anyone who attempts the taper method I wrote about…
I had access to and took full advantage of the relief provided by 2 mg Xanax bars and 10 mg Ambiens throughout my entire withdrawal process as well as the 1st few days of any milestone dosage decrease during the taper process. These medications are so very important due to the fact that they provide SIGNIFICANT relief and enable you to somewhat silent your body and brain in order to sleep and just simply get through each day. If you have a doctor I suggest you ask them for Baclofen, a muscle relaxer which helps with the creepy crawlies and restless legs anytime of the day but mostly at bedtime. These symptoms were unbelievably minimal with my method anyway but not completely absent. This drug, Baclofen, is not sold on the street to my knowledge. My doctor gave it to me when I told him I had night tremors. I also took the recommended dosages of extra-strength tylenol and Ibuprofen throughout the entire withdrawal to deal with the achey legs and back. Use a heating pad or ice packs to help with minor sweats and chills. Take showers and baths whenever you feel it getting rough, this provides a surprising amount of relief. I actually fell asleep in the tub on the 3rd night after experiencing a bit of RLS when I got sleepy, luckily I woke up a few hours later before the water got too cold and my head went under. Over all I slept in 3-4 hour segments throughout each day/night whenever possible. I didn’t try to force sleep I just let myself nap whenever possible (that’s why I recommend taking off of work… so you can minimize stress and sleep whenever the hell you need it or feel like it). There is no such thing as Circadian Rhythm during the withdrawal process and these naps are priceless and necessary. Stomach issues were minimal but keep a bottle of pepto bismol or Immodium by your bedside just in case. It is important to stock up on any of the items I mentioned before you jump off the subs!!! Also pre-prepare meals for the week (dinner plates to heat up, microwavable meals, canned goods such as chef boyardee and soup, which I sometimes ate right out the can… YUCK… basically anything easy). Also stock up on liquids to drink (bottles of water, gatorade, electrolyte drinks, and protein shakes for when you just can’t force yourself to eat). I even bought plastic forks and spoons, paper plates, and cups so I did not have to do any dishes that week. Buy 2 cartons of cigarettes if you smoke and, BY GOD ladies, DO NOT try to do this at a time of the month when you are expecting your period. That’s an instant relapse if you get severe cramps like me. Please take care with the medications I mentioned and only use them when necessary and at safe dosages. Again, good luck and be safe, Jaime
(Posted this twice because the sub taper 101 page appears to be two separate posts with two different links)
I have a great tip that helped me tremendously as I got below the 1mg portion of my taper!!! I started at 16 mg a day of sub to deal with a roxicet/OC habit and tapered my sub dose over an 8 and 1/2 month period. I just followed what my body was telling me to do and gradually started minimizing my dose once I felt ready mentally. I can’t say my taper did not come completely without minor withdrawals but it was worth it to hold on to that last dose as long as I possibly could without taking my next daily dose. This enables you to jump to a lower dose more quickly, but quick = slightly uncomfortable. WELL, that said, HERE IS MY ADVICE… Using a diposable plastic syringe (without the needle or course), dilute a 2 mg piece of suboxone in 2 mL of water or just use a basic 1:1 ratio or 1:2 ratio to dilute, measure, and dispense the liquid sub mixture under your tongue. I was able to taper, quite easily, to .03 mg per day using this method, which, by the way is also a very precise method of tapering unlike breaking off chips of the sub. YES! .03 mg per day of suboxone. My taper was like clockwork due to the very precise and very small dosage decreases this method allows. Once you’re at .03 mg of sub take your time deciding when the time is right to jump off and make plans for an uncomfortable, but fairly easy, withdrawal. It took me about 5-7 days (1st two days weren’t bad at all) to get over the VERY subdued physical withdrawal in comparison to the much more difficult time I had jumping of at .5 mg and even .25 mg. This method also helps minimize the “I think I’m OK’s” and produces a much more stable period of physical withdrawal. I would suggest taking off of work for at least a week and dedicating yourself to this task completely while also following this site’s owner’s advice (He is very spot on in my opinion). Though this method did make the physical withdrawal much easier, the psychological aspect is another story with a completely different timeline and experience for each individual person. Get help… it is so lonely and difficult to do on your own. This experience was the hardest of my life. It makes you feel very scared and support will help with the fear. Good luck, Jaime
(Posted this twice because the sub taper 101 page appears to be two separate posts with two different links)
At hour 144…feeling okay…not taking the benzos and my anxiety is a little high…but I do have energy and for the most part, I feel okay…A little bit of leg pain, but whatev…not that bad…yesterday, I did go through WD’s at about noon, but I could live with it. I’m thinking its almost over. THANK GOD!
Okay, at hour 120 and I feel pretty okay. No sluggish feeling…I can think…all and all okay. This has been pretty easy(except for days 2-4). I must tell you that I was never on a high dose and never had to taper…the most I was on was 2mg and jumped from that…it sucked (and maybe its not over and I’ve gotten a 12 hr break from the BS) but it was not so bad. Good luck to everyone else going through this….It does get better.
Well, I am at hour 96…Its not so bad…Day 3 I had to take off work due to ZERO energy…low energy today but I can live with it. Sleep has been the big thing for me in that I have not gotten much. Eating a TON while doing this…YES! Ambien and Xanax (or any benzo) do help…just be careful with them. For anyone reading this…just hang in there…things could be worse…ignore the inner monologue and just go with it…it won’t last forever and sooner or later, you will feel back to normal. Just stay the F away from opiates unless it is necessary…will update as this progresses.
I want to thank you for this letter, it’s very encouraging. I am at about 5 1/2 months of tapering off the Suboxone, and it’s been really crappy. However, I keep a chart to remind myself of my progress, and I don’t let myself get into the mental abyss of negativity. I am at 52 hours off, and so far it isn’t as bad as when I have tried it at a higher dose. This site has been the only thing that helps me along this journey and I thank you for sharing your experience with us, you have helped so many and your suffering was not wasted.
Thanks a lot! I have been on subs for two years, and had been on them off and on before that. You know the story. Anyways, I started at 16 mg and am now at 5. I plan to jump to 4 mg tomorrow. So far it has been pretty simple. I jump down when I feel I am ready. I do know, however, that it does not get hard until late in the game. I have heard so many horror stories. The thing is, on the internet, it seems people either go off about how it is hell on earth and that I should just kill myself now, blah blah blah. OR people talk about how easy it was. There is almost never a middle ground it seems like. That is why it was refreshing to read your post. It kind of said; yea it sucks, but it is possible and there are worse things. Again, thanks a lot and wish me luck (which I know has little to do with it).
PS. I really like how you said we are “all charging it and eventually have to pay up.” So true.
O BTW…….For those in W/D…….If you cannot eat, I know this has helped me now & in the past. Sweets will help & hell they taste good. I have been eating dry sweet cereal & chocolate. It is some kind of food if nothing else sounds good!
I am going to start off by saying WELL SAID!!!! this site & that post really helped me out in the days to come. I currently have been on Subs for like 4 months. Me and my boyfriend. Like other people I have taken percocet along with my subs (24 hrs after) & oxy too….I have quit doing that…But I am currently on day 1 1/2 (I sometimes have to take it a second at a time Ahhhh!!!) I just wanted to know how long this shit will last! I have been highly addicted to opiates since I was 17 am now 24. All those years of shit I have put my body & mind through a living hell…it has bound to catch up with me at some point. I have tapered myself rather quickly, At first I was taking 8 MG a day…then I started taking a 4 MG in the morning before work and maybe a quarter at night if I felt bad. That was bareable. Then I gradually worked myself down to 2 MG a day. And just before I ran out of our last script I was taking 1 MG a day. So at this point I am feeling the creepy crawley spiders & hot & cold shit. I feel ok now but anxiety is on its way. I do know that your post helped me a lot to know my hell ahead. It is NO WHERE NEAR the physical W/D’s of Oxy. No diarrhea or puking. But I am very achy & feel like they pulled the plug on me. But I want to quit all this pain & suffering! For ME. and my beautiful daughter! I have been through heroin addiction & pill addiction. All one in the same if you ask me…Oxy is basically legal heroin. So thats for sharing your journal. I appreciate the honesty!
This is by far the most helpful website I’ve come across. I appreciate the info on tapering – I’d have thought that 0.5mg was a negligible amount to detox off of… I’m down to about 0.3mg per day, itty bitty crumbs. So far, going from 1mg to 0.3 has been hardest, but I did it quickly.
I’ve had no cravings since I started taking subox 9 months ago, which is a big relief. I’m going to try to reduce my dose again tomorrow…
Thanks for all the info on this site; it’s kept me from tapering too quickly. Good luck to everyone struggling.