Comments on: Suboxone Withdrawal / Taper 101

By: Dan

Dan — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:26:05 +0000

Awesome story Brian. Really inspiring. Have you had any issues with PAWS?

My experience was very similar. One difference though- I definitely had a shift around day 5 where the more ‘acute’ symptoms started to quickly decline (i.e. RLS, jittery hellish feeling), so for those of you who are gonna give this a shot, it may not take a full 12 days.

I also worked full time during the withdrawal. As an engineer i have to force myself to concentrate on the details of my work and it really helped me keep my mind off it. (I figure if you’re gonna feel like shit, you might as well be at work).

I also used some pretty serious prescription sleep meds and managed to sleep almost a full night every night of my withdrawal, but if you’re gonna go that way i would caution people to limit it to 7-10 days. I hear benzo withdrawal can be worse than suboxone.

By: Sub Scubby

Sub Scubby — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 01:51:15 +0000

Brian-your extremely lucky you have stayed sober without meetings or anything like that. I admit there are some shitty meetings like you mentioned where everyone only talks about their using, how bad it was, and how they wish they could use blah blah blah. But there are good meetings where people actually talk about how good their lives are today without ever mentioning using. They focus on the program, how to live life without mind altering substances, the steps and how to live life one day at a time. I am referring to AA not NA because all the NA meetings I’ve been to are like what you mentioned. And I’ve never been addicted to alcohol..only opiates and other substances. I tried to the suboxone alone with nothing else and I relapsed a month after getting off of it (go figure) because it was the only tool I had to deal with cravings. Thought if i only took the opiates away because that was the only problem, but guess what, its me that’s the problem..not the opiates. Took a long time for me to understand that. This time, I got on sub for two years, went to meetings, worked the steps, tapered off the subs and I’ve now been clean for 3 years! Sorry for the rant but I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there. Good luck to everyone and know that it is possible to live life happily without opiates. NEVER GIVE UP! IF AT FIRST YOU DON’T SUCCEED…DUST YOURSELF OFF AND TRY TRY AGAIN!

By: Joe

Joe — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 01:38:26 +0000

Brian,
Thanks man. I’ll email you with my contact info. I’m going to see if I can get a short-term script for KPins and/or some form of Benzos and a few Ambiens this week to get over the hump. This time I’m hopeful I’ve made enough life changes so I don’t relaps on opiates again. I don’t even miss the shit anymore. Like you said, its like a loan that eventually needs to be paid back in a lump sum! haha. I think I continued to use for months because I didn’t want to W/D. Poor excuse hu? The F’n jumpy/crawling & anxiety & depression of Sub detox sucks. I got weak last Friday and bought an 8mg Sub. I’ve broken it into 8 days. I thought jumping off at 2mgs would work, but apparently I need to try 1mg for a week… I don’t want to go thru this anymore. Its getting so old. You know what I mean-
Joe

By: Brian_Taper

Brian_Taper — Sat, 07 Aug 2010 09:11:38 +0000

Joe,

Thanks for the comments. It took me 3 times also coming off of the pills till I realized I had to leave all that shit behind. 2006 I got on the sub…. late 08 I walked off it. Dude, I have been in the clear ever since and have NEVER looked back. This transition time is up to you and you alone, and brother, you are….from how you are venting, on the same track I was… This is from my perspective a good thing, cause it seems you are going to be giving the finger to the “shit” that has been and had been jacking you up. Fucking A… In regards to what you wrote about… I went to an AA or whatever the fuck it was meeting 2 times…. it was like dangling a steak in front of a starving person… This is how it was “Hello everybody, please state your name, why are you here and then…. let’s all talk about how bad we “want” our X factor,… then glorify it….and then….weee…..weee…..weee…. WE ALL GO HOME happy,…. and after that……then you’ll FUCK UP cause the seed is planted….. and we’ll see you next week” Yep AA is a referral business. If everyone was good and well, where would the funding come from?

(side note:) You know, I could be overly articulate and write or publish this site as such “In the overall statistics of the patients and their recovery of opiate addiction within the established parameters of a group setting….bs….bs….bs..” I just choose to just speak my mind….. Just saying this so everyone knows I am not some wacko hermit… I’m 34, ride dirt bikes, my chopper and have my business back up and running now….and I just started breeding small horses (ok, the horses thing is a joke).

Joe, as you know… It’s all up to us in the end. I felt as you did, I road the same ride…. Unfortunately I am sorry about all stuff you lost both personally and also in regards to your physical items which I’m sure you obviously worked extremely hard for (by NO means am I being sarcastic AT ALL). For me,… all that does remain from my fuck up is my chopper, the bike could never go…. THOUGH, DON’T think it didn’t come to mind and that was just fucked on my end. Joe, sorry it came to all it did. You CAN get thru this or really it seems you already are. Sounds like you are a hard ass or once were…and still can be. Dude, you know from this site I am not bible a basher or some rehab asshole… I just know what you went thru cause I had been there and went thru it. Apples to apples; the Mercedes is gone, the F-250 is adios, I kept one of my dirtbikes and like I mentioned, my chopper……long gone is the 401k, the savings, the house…. I do though have my life, and I am rebuilding quickly. You’ll do the same. E-mail me…and we’ll shoot the shit. info@suboxonetaper.com…. I’ll give you my direct e-mail after that.

As fucked as it is, as as stupid as this sounds….you’re on a positive road.

Brian

By: Eric

Eric — Sat, 07 Aug 2010 01:05:09 +0000

Intense words Joe. Things are out of control for me too. Your story is a wake up for me. I’ve been using Suboxone between getting my Oxy’s. Unfortunately I was prescribed pain meds, but after 12 weeks I wanted to continue to mis use the stuff cuz I liked the way I can talk to anyone and I feel confident. I’m afraid of the withdrawals from Suboxone and Opiates. I have been back and forth for almost a year. I can’t miss work or be sick. WTF. But thank you Joe. Post more often.

By: Joe

Joe — Sat, 07 Aug 2010 00:36:07 +0000

Jaime & Brian, & All;
Can’t thank you enough for sharing your no-BS candid personal account of the Sub-Taper and drug use experiences. It feels amazing to know I’m not alone thru this WD process. I identify with 99% of your journey. I was clean for 6 months after 2 years of 512′s & OC’s. I was even off Subs for 3 of those months when on 7/4/09 my buddy tossed me a 30mg blue generic M Perk. That run lasted 10 months and could have killed me. This is my 3rd and by the grace of GOD last attempt to change my opiate-driven quest for mood-lifting substances. I hope I can reach the person ( even 1 person) who’s chewing some Perks, snorting some OC’s or graduating to Heroin. Because trust me, its not “if” but WHEN you’ll do H if you continue to dabble. I played with fire and inevitably burned my ass off. I was cocky, somewhat arrogant about my 3 year rise from a casual habit to a full-blown “ADDICT”. I had a great relationship with my daughters, good job,money, girlfriend, self esteem, Harley and a great life. EVERY aspect of my life took a hit during my run.. I kept hearing’”he hasn’t hit his low” or “he’s not ready yet.” BS man, opiates F’d up my life big time and the price to pay is HUGH. Thank GOD after eventually getting to the point of IV Speed-Balling ( coke & H ) $200-$250 an F’n day I’m still alive. I got to the point where everything was planned around my use and whether I had the strength to emotionally or physically do the simplest things or to just socialize. Eating and taking care of myself was in the way of getting high. Sorry for the cliche’ but I got sick and tired of being sick and tired… Don’t get me wrong, I have my beautiful children and my life, however, I could have flushed it down the shitter. Nothing I loved made me happy or mattered to me towards the end. Most of my material things were pawned or sold. I felt as though I was watching life from the bench. I was the walking dead. I kept saying this is the last time… Every day was my last time- I was in total Denial man. Although, other than track marks, I thought I looked good. DENIAL… I was 170lbs, ahd lost 15 lbs of muscel and a PINNED pupils 24/7… This isn’t me. I wanted my life back more than the pathetic existence I was living as a “yuppie”, BMW-driving, Gym-going, clean cut guy… I was a fraud! A paper shell of the man I was before opiates became the most important thing in my life. I tried rehab but it made me want to use after talking/sharing stories with fellow patients. After 2 days I was ready to jump the fence and shoot up. Sick but true. AA/NA meeting were the same. I know the NA network works but it wasn’t for me. I pissed thru my Harley and $15K in savings in no time. The GREAT new is.. there’s life after OPIATES! Yes I’m all too familiar with the hell of WD from Suboxone too, but it can be done. Stay positive, connected, busy and have the desire for the quality of life without the BOGUS feeling of synthetic shit.. It took me 3 months to get my energy back and sleep patters back after Subs/Opiates. ***I blew it because I thought I could just use one more time… SURE, my one time lasted nearly a year. I’m sooo tired of the depression, roller coaster emotions and just overall sense of anxiety of the exhausting process of detoxing. We need to rely on each other. Our sustained success is predicated on a network of supporters. Stay away from all the negative blogs and friends who use and want us to be high with them. I’m just starting the 48th hour of my Sub tapper and I know it wont be easy, and the pain is unequivocally coming but I want a better life more than my fake HIGHS. More than my scamming, Fd up days trying to get my shit. I have to live with damaged trust from friends and family, and scars on my arms but failure isn’t an option. Stay STRONG… Be TOUGH… Find whatever you can relate to to motivate you to break the cycle. Respitory suppression and death are REAL. So is jail buddy…It can be done- Good luck my fellow addicts! JP

By: kimberly

kimberly — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 02:15:57 +0000

ok… I have read all the blogs and sites out there… wow… over load. this is the best site by far. Left a question a few moments ago and feel dumb… jumped the gun.. Read everything now. I was in car accident.. 4 yrs on dr. oxy. new pain dr. doesn’t prescribe oxy, other meds tho. Sent me to detox. Put me on Suboxne. didn’t investigate. OMG!!! hardest thing I have ever done. Started on 2-2mg tabs 3 x a day. went to 1 mg tab 3x aday. fine until third day full blown wd. Then now on .25 mg at 9pm. fine 3 days ago. then 3rd day full blown wd. Never wd off anything before. would take a crumb to get through. Started on suboxone on July 1, 2010. WOW. Probably stepped down too quickly. had no idea, my fault. Niave to say the least. Can’t do a thing. Is is going to be the same when I taper off the .25mg crumbs? Thank you.

By: nikster

nikster — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 01:03:54 +0000

i have read all of the posts, and i feel optimistic. i am however a little concerned because most people have said they started at 8 or 16 mg daily. well i started my suboxone treatment in march 2010 and i started at 32mg daily and now am at 24mg. i have been on for a little over 4 months but i am concerned about the high dose. i previously was using vics or percs daily but over past 4 years went from vics to oxys to heroin (iv) back to vics and percs where i ended.. any suggestions or info about the high dose? and thanks to all who share their experiences.. good luck and god bless!!

By: Jaime

Jaime — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 23:58:10 +0000

I wanted to add a few things to my previous post that I think are important to the success of anyone who attempts the taper method I wrote about…
I had access to and took full advantage of the relief provided by 2 mg Xanax bars and 10 mg Ambiens throughout my entire withdrawal process as well as the 1st few days of any milestone dosage decrease during the taper process. These medications are so very important due to the fact that they provide SIGNIFICANT relief and enable you to somewhat silent your body and brain in order to sleep and just simply get through each day. If you have a doctor I suggest you ask them for Baclofen, a muscle relaxer which helps with the creepy crawlies and restless legs anytime of the day but mostly at bedtime. These symptoms were unbelievably minimal with my method anyway but not completely absent. This drug, Baclofen, is not sold on the street to my knowledge. My doctor gave it to me when I told him I had night tremors. I also took the recommended dosages of extra-strength tylenol and Ibuprofen throughout the entire withdrawal to deal with the achey legs and back. Use a heating pad or ice packs to help with minor sweats and chills. Take showers and baths whenever you feel it getting rough, this provides a surprising amount of relief. I actually fell asleep in the tub on the 3rd night after experiencing a bit of RLS when I got sleepy, luckily I woke up a few hours later before the water got too cold and my head went under. Over all I slept in 3-4 hour segments throughout each day/night whenever possible. I didn’t try to force sleep I just let myself nap whenever possible (that’s why I recommend taking off of work… so you can minimize stress and sleep whenever the hell you need it or feel like it). There is no such thing as Circadian Rhythm during the withdrawal process and these naps are priceless and necessary. Stomach issues were minimal but keep a bottle of pepto bismol or Immodium by your bedside just in case. It is important to stock up on any of the items I mentioned before you jump off the subs!!! Also pre-prepare meals for the week (dinner plates to heat up, microwavable meals, canned goods such as chef boyardee and soup, which I sometimes ate right out the can… YUCK… basically anything easy). Also stock up on liquids to drink (bottles of water, gatorade, electrolyte drinks, and protein shakes for when you just can’t force yourself to eat). I even bought plastic forks and spoons, paper plates, and cups so I did not have to do any dishes that week. Buy 2 cartons of cigarettes if you smoke and, BY GOD ladies, DO NOT try to do this at a time of the month when you are expecting your period. That’s an instant relapse if you get severe cramps like me. Please take care with the medications I mentioned and only use them when necessary and at safe dosages. Again, good luck and be safe, Jaime
(Posted this twice because the sub taper 101 page appears to be two separate posts with two different links)

By: Jaime

Jaime — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 23:08:15 +0000

I have a great tip that helped me tremendously as I got below the 1mg portion of my taper!!! I started at 16 mg a day of sub to deal with a roxicet/OC habit and tapered my sub dose over an 8 and 1/2 month period. I just followed what my body was telling me to do and gradually started minimizing my dose once I felt ready mentally. I can’t say my taper did not come completely without minor withdrawals but it was worth it to hold on to that last dose as long as I possibly could without taking my next daily dose. This enables you to jump to a lower dose more quickly, but quick = slightly uncomfortable. WELL, that said, HERE IS MY ADVICE… Using a diposable plastic syringe (without the needle or course), dilute a 2 mg piece of suboxone in 2 mL of water or just use a basic 1:1 ratio or 1:2 ratio to dilute, measure, and dispense the liquid sub mixture under your tongue. I was able to taper, quite easily, to .03 mg per day using this method, which, by the way is also a very precise method of tapering unlike breaking off chips of the sub. YES! .03 mg per day of suboxone. My taper was like clockwork due to the very precise and very small dosage decreases this method allows. Once you’re at .03 mg of sub take your time deciding when the time is right to jump off and make plans for an uncomfortable, but fairly easy, withdrawal. It took me about 5-7 days (1st two days weren’t bad at all) to get over the VERY subdued physical withdrawal in comparison to the much more difficult time I had jumping of at .5 mg and even .25 mg. This method also helps minimize the “I think I’m OK’s” and produces a much more stable period of physical withdrawal. I would suggest taking off of work for at least a week and dedicating yourself to this task completely while also following this site’s owner’s advice (He is very spot on in my opinion). Though this method did make the physical withdrawal much easier, the psychological aspect is another story with a completely different timeline and experience for each individual person. Get help… it is so lonely and difficult to do on your own. This experience was the hardest of my life. It makes you feel very scared and support will help with the fear. Good luck, Jaime
(Posted this twice because the sub taper 101 page appears to be two separate posts with two different links)