Tips & Advice To Ease W/D’s
I leave this one up to you.
I had, in my experiences, no major luck with herbal supplements, magic antler powder or sacrificing of $100.00 bills to the God of Herbal Supplement Stores…. Anyone got any good advice on what someone coult take, supplementary wise, during any kind of opiate withdrawal…? Please…don’t be F***ing quiet about this topic… help others out. I dont post your e-mails or shit… No corporate deal here. Just one guy trying to make a meeting place for everyone to help others out.
Note: I dont buy the “herbal supplement” bullshit myself……BUT……….. I will mention just one, melatonin. It did help me return to my sleep patterns faster (it did not though, during w/d’s help me sleep like ambien did). I have gotten e-mails from others that have said the same thing…that “melatonin helped them repair faster” I just call it as it is; even though I really think I am bullshitting myself…but it did atleast have some effect. Your thoughts?
Comments (16)
> I will mention just one, melatonin. It did help me return to my sleep
> patterns faster (it did not though, during w/d’s help me sleep like
> ambien did).
This is a really interessting thing with the melatonin.
For me insomnia is the worst during withdrawal. I cannot sleep at all. I’m too tired to stay awake but too sick to sleep. I tried nearly everything. I took masses of benzodiazepines (flunitrazepam, diazepam). I was totally stoned from this stuff. I wasn’t able to walk and talk anymore but I still couldn’t sleep. I tried drinking to coma but this just boosted all withdrawal symptoms (physically and mentally). The only thing that helped a little was doxepin. With that stuff I was able to find at least some hours of sleep.
When I finish my withdrawal, I still can’t sleep. Although I have then no real withdrawal symptoms anymore, it still takes weeks until my sleep patterns will normalize.
I now got addicted again because of an bad injury where I had to take masses of opioids against the pain. In 4 to 6 weeks it is time for my next withdrawal. I will try with melatonin and hope it will help. Could you write a little bit more to that? Maybe a ahort report? That would be great.
> Anyone got any good advice on what someone coult take, supplementary
> wise, during any kind of opiate withdrawal…? Please…don’t be F***ing
> quiet about this topic… help others out.
Last time I tested some remedies and found helping stuff.
Kratom helps. Everytime when pain gets too strong and I reached the point where I said: “That’s enough. I now have to get some dope!” then I drank a kratom tea. It really helped. It alleviated nearly all my withdrawal symptoms (physically and mentally). I then could think quite normal again and got new power and will power. The only problem was that such a tea only helped me for about 2-3 hours.
And then: GBL (or GHB). Dosing every 4 hours helps. It switches off nearly all withdrawal symptoms. But unfortenately it is (nearly) illegal in most countries. You shouldn’t take it too long because you can also get addicted to that (but that’s not too bad in comparison to heroin withdrawal). Best thing is to take it only for the time of withdrawal and then stop.
It really makes opiate withdrawal easier. I would say it eliminated 90% of my withdrawal symptoms and pain.
But after I’m done with the withdrawal, I still have really worse sleeping problems. I will try melatonin for that.
And there are also some other withdrawal remedies that sound promisingly. There are L-aspartic-acid and Acetyl-L-Carnitin and some other things (Studies to that can be found when you search the medline database). I will try some of them during my next withdrawal in 4-6 weeks (when my injury is better and I don’t need opiates for pain anymore).
What a fantastic site. Thanks to ALL of you who have shared your stories and experience – (I would share mine, but I don’t really think it is necessary right now, plus typing is a challenge – a bit sick…) I will bookmark and check back often. Thanks so much, and best of luck, health, and recoveries to us all! Much Love.
Speaking of natural products for good nutrition, I’d like to add my own discovery — coconut juice. I was in an HEB, was thirsty, and bought a pint of refrigerated coconut juice with a dash of lime. Wow! I felt it instantly. It turns out that coconut juice is a natural sports drink like Gatoraide. Great for re-hydration! You can check out the Wikipedia article at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_water
Help! Out of sub due to a mix up of things w/ref. from my original Dr. who sent me to another Dr. I’m am going completely insane w/restlessness, I can’t sleep at all. What to do??? Someone please HELP!!!!
My best advice to Ryan’s post this past June is to take those 9 subs and hold onto them. Trying to use only 9 tablets (I’m assuming you are referring to the bigger 8mg/2mg tabs) to successfully get of heroin will be a waste of the 9 tablets and perhaps more importantly, really make you feel that you have failed in quitting and not want to try again. At least thats what I felt until I got educated with the help of this website and my doctor. I have no health care benefits and the money I have saved from burning gasoline, my time, the risk of a felony conviction, and of course the money for the drugs is a lot more costly than finding a decent substance abuse specialist (or any psychiatrist who can prescribe Suboxone), and get the subs prescribed. Mine is a decent fellow who wanted to see me for 15 minutes each month for the first 2-3 months and then every two to three months thereafter. All I had to do was call him each month and he prescribed the subs directly from his laptop to the pharmacy. I mean think about it. If you are using only ten dollars a day of heroin or vics, that is three hundred dollars a month right there. 8mg/2mg tablets are about seven or eight dollars each and I came off a 4 – 6 dime a day habit. I hope this helps you my friend. You can do it! Thank you again Brian for this site. I’m sure it has been a blessing to thousands, if not millions of people and you are to be commended. I emailed you a few months ago and you were kind enough to write me back and invited me to call you by phone but I failed to write your number down. Could you please send that to my email address. Please feel free to edit anything in this post. It may be wise to delete the last four sentences of this post so you don’t have EVERYBODY asking for your number.
went from pills to IV H.(multiple withdrawal experiences);then MMT (220mg. highest) for over 4 years–tapered down to 30 mg.last year and a half. switched to suboxone mid May (16/20 mg.for a while,then tapered to 12,8,6,4,2 mostly weekly) and quit July 14. today is day 15 off, and withdrawal symptoms are NOT going away! advil,immodium,nyquil,attivan,ambien,phenergan all help some, but this prolonged awfulness is very draining and discourageing. will it ever end?
Thanks for the nice words, Brian.
Just to further emphasize the hormonal problems that sustained opiate useage can cause (NOT speaking of just estrogen here, Guys!) think of those hot flashes that produce all that sweating (if you’re lucky to get the sweats) during detox. I experienced a seemingly never-ending, sustained hot flash the first time I tried to detox of H.
The sensation would rise up my back and hit my neck like I was an upside-down matchstick. When it hit my neck, the “flash” would spread over my body like the sulpher had then ignited. At times between these flashes, my skin was just plain hot, as if I was in the direct sunshine. The sensitivity to heat from the outside environment was intense enough to cause me to scream obscenities at whomever was near, even at the dog… Of course, in response to this over-heated condition is the sweats, which are so profuse that it causes the skin to be chilled afterwards.
This heat/chill imbalance has a direct relationship to imbalance of the hormones in our bodies, possibly even more pronounced in women. The relationship between hormones and mood has been studied for decades, but what has gotten little attention is the relationship between PROPER protein consumption — NOT referring merely to eating meat here; proteins exist in everything — the enzymes necessary to metabolize/catabolize those proteins, and hormone levels in our bloodstream.
Even less attention has been given to how opiate use throws our hormone-producing glands into chaos. We users fail to notice it because of the power of opiates to cover/mask almost any mood one could possibly feel. And either as addicts or simply because of ego, we tend to deny that what’s going on in the body affects our mood; until, of course, the opiate is removed… Anyone who’s tried detoxing from opiates knows well the eruption of emotions that come out of us when detoxing begins.
Again, I’m remaining vague here as far as recmmending specific supplementation, simply because hormones are so powerful. Additionally, there are so many other processes going on in the body that need attention — like liver destruction; most of us smoke cigarettes; circulation retardation, both blood and lymph — that more than just hormonal balance needs to be addressed.
Since these body-damaged systems effect our moods SO strongly — whether one is aware of it or not — I can only encourage EVERYone, whether you’re detoxing or still using, to START and STAY on a diet of fruits, vegtables, health-enhancing teas, supplementation with whole-food vitamins. Go easy on the meats, processed sugar, and especially yeast-containing foods like most breads. Stay away from foods laden with animal fats which, unfortunately for our generation, are full of hormones, esp. growth hormone.
To boot, almsot every product in our household these days has some petroleum-derived substance in it — like deodorant/antiperspirant, soap, plastic bottles — which the body DOES absorb and can confuse as a hormone. To make matters worse, our water supply in this “21st” Century has the highest level of hormones in the history of mankind. Few filtering systems even detect them, much less remove them.
[Gee, as I write this, I wonder if I'm not hinting at what caused us to be so f'g emotional in the first place that we found the emotion-deadening opiate so attractive in the first place! I gotta stop writing now -- I'm frightening myself!]
“Etffsdf” also has some good advice. Those hot baths can make a big difference in helping one get through the detox process, even though as a lost-in-low-awareness heavy user, I almost loathed bathing! (How embarassing it is to admit that!) It helps with the overly hot skin which then sweats; the skin emits waste on a more even keel, which in turn reduces the stress on the body. Calms the muscles, too.
I add an essential oil to the bath water, like lavender or clary sage, in an effort to help my mood, or helps calm what I call “stress breathing.” Using oils like eucalyptus or bay rum (or something that “penetrates” the scent glands can help with the sinus stuffiness if that’s one of your symptoms (anybody else sneeze every hour?) (Which oil is your choice, but use just a little!)
Like you, Brian, I’ve also discovered that walking, even with no destination in mind, is a tremendous aid. At first, I could barely stand up straight and had to walk very, very slowly. I have no doubt that it begins to re-aquaint the brain with its own endorphin-releasing ability. Yet just as important, walking helps turn those hour-long minutes of time back into minutes.
Thanks again for the nice reply. Hope this helps all of us find some peace.
-g
G-
Great info and one of the best posts in a long time. Maybe I’ll just make this one a category and let people comment on what you wrote. You added alot of stuff I had not covered. Thanks again and talk to you soon. Feel free to e-mail me.
Brian
Suboxone Taper
I tapered down from about 8-12mg a day for a year (avgeraged about 1.5 oxy 80′s/day, but did up to 5 80′s/day for a few months at a time when funds were available, all over 3.5 years) to about 4-5 mgs/day for two months, two maybe roughly 2-3mgs day for the last week. The first day off of course was just the calm before the storm, second day was realization that I just maybe going back to hell, 3rd day was the worst as usual, 4th day my mood was slightly up from day 3 but everything else, meaning creepy and restless skin/joints, stiffness and aching, sleeplessness, were a little better, and by a little i do mean very little. I am on day 5 now and i find that as long as i wake up (from about 5 hrs of sleep somehow) take steaming hot shower, take something with caffeine (coffee, excedrin, etc. but not too much bc it will make you crash then wake up and have no motivation once again), take immodium bc it helps with the diaherrea and also it does something with the same receptors (although very minimal) as opiates do, and take one B12 vitamin I end up in pretty decent mood and can function if I really need to. Staying hydrated is a big factor also. Everyone is different and staying positive mentally is the biggest part i find. If you tell yourself you will get through this and it won’t be too bad, sometimes i think it really does help the symptoms.
Hello Brian and All.
I’m new here; just found this site in my desperate hours of trying to free myself from a now-twenty-year dependence on opiates. What a sanity-saver your site has become for me. I’ve been trying to kick the suboxone for two months now, with only the knowledge of what kicking H. and/or methadone was like. Suboxone is an altogether different beast. End result: FAILURE.
I jumped off the suboxone cliff after tapering from 8 mg per day, down to 4, down to 2, down to 0 in just one and-a-half month’s time. I had been on 8 mg. for over almost two years. I took this jump out of a desire to live up to a trusted and admired friend’s admonition, that I just couldn’t do the things he does if I was on suboxone. His intention, of course, was good, but his knowledge of opiate addiction/dependence was gleaned only from the rumor mills.
My story is for another section of your site, so I’ll elaborate elsewhere. Yet I would like to say this OVER AND OVER AGAIN: Let absolutely nothing but YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE tell you when it is time to jump into the burning waters of healing. That time WILL come.
I’m currently back on 1 mg. per day, and have plans to taper further. The only positive outcome of having tried to quit for the wrong reasons has been the gathering of more information on how to quit properly, with better odds of success. As antithetical as this statement may seem, it is, in fact, the return to the 1 mg. per day of the suboxone that has allowed me to continue the battle to quit.
This topic of nutritional supplements is one that I’m researching with keen interest right now. It seems the physical symptoms can all be addressed through more than one resource — like Immodium for the stomach, muscle relaxors for the incessant stretching, valium for the intense, over-active nerves, Ambien for sleep — and I realize these aids are for REDUCTION, not elimination, of these sypmtoms.
However, in MY experience, it is the shift of my mental health that has proved the hardest battle. It CANNOT be fought with talk therapy! Trying to talk through the detox of suboxone is tantamount to trying to talk someone out of an insulin overdose.
Through my still on-going research, I’ve found that there is a seriously imbalanced, dysfunction of hormone production and use in the body of a detoxing opiate user. This dysfunctional situation, involving three key areas in the body/brain, accounts for so many gripping thoughts that range all the way from feelings of sadness, a flat affect, to uncontrolled violent outbursts and plans of suicide.
Underlying these shifts of HORRID DISPOSITIONS is that fatal loss of joie de vivre, a feeling of “Just don’t f’g care.” While in the throes of detox, I consider searching for things that may help me get through the battle, yet am paralyzed to do so. “Just don’t f’g care,” coupled with exhaustion on every level — physical, mental, spiritual — simply renders self-help impossible.
Again, my research has lead me to find information about hormone imbalances that brings about these “moods.” I hesitate to call them “moods” because that word minimizes the gravity of the situation, suggesting that it’s something that will pass soon if one just has the will to change.
I’m not speaking here of just serotonin, nor of just the estrogen/testoterone equation, although these are hormones that have importance. Melatonin is part of the equation here, as is trytophan, and other amino acids, proteins in their proper combinations. Although these are not classified as “hormones,” they are those substances that “interact” with the hormones in the body, without which that critical balance cannot be achieved. Also included in this interaction are critical nutriets like the B complex.
I am purposely not giving specific information here because I’m still trying to compile a list of supplements AND FOODS for myself to have in hand before I make the big leap. I encourage everyone in my situation to search sites like FloridaDetox.com and read what experienced doctors, working with opiate withdrawal, have been using to help their patients. Search the sites of nutritionists for information as to HOW these things work, not the sites which merely sell the products.
I have also found that the acid/alkaline balance of food has helped me. I have been making a “smoothie” each morning, a blend of fresh fruits with the addition of some form of the green mixes of blue-green algea and Reishi mushroom. I’ve found the green mixes DO help with the dysphoria, in particular, and go further to re-build all the physical damage — like loss of muscle tone, dehydration, constipation — done by the opiate usage.
Finally, I note that it is the CONTIUNED use of these supplements AND FOODS that produces the support the body/mind needs to recover. A little here, a little there will NOT produce results. Also, I am referring here to a DIET of proper supplementation, not the act of merely buying a bottle of pills and expecting to be able to take a few, then forget about it.
I’ll be continuing to read the posts here, Brian, and answer whatever questions I can. Like you mention in so many posts, it is up to the individual to do the work FOR THE INDIVIDUAL. I can share my list of aids that I’m gathering when I’ve completed it.
In the meantime, I can make a few suggestions. Like for those who are still using heavily to buy a bottle of aloe vera juice — a WELL MADE brand! circa $15-$25 per quart — and take about two big swigs of it every morning. That’s all you need ON A DAILY BASIS. Within two or three days, your chronic consipation will be helped tremendously, if not eliminated.
Hope to speak with you again and often,
-G
PS Brian, feel free to edit my posts.
Angela,
The thing is there is no taper process really. Well, I mean all I did was take my time and I mean… I just took “my” time. See, when you go into a doctors office, be it if they are cool, supportive or just idiots; you’re just one more client. The advice that is given is just “text book” in the literal sense. So when you hear a doctor say “Angela, tapering slowly is the best way to go and in addition you are ready”… Dont let anyone tell you how your life is, how you feel or what you’re ready for.
When I was ready and I knew that I was truly on a different track and lifestyle, that is when I started a slow taper. Did it really help? I dont know, I didn’t jump off at 6mg or what ever. Either way, you got to pay up sometime. I would like to think that the taper did help, I think that is just common sense…. I mean jumping off at 16mg I don’t think would be a great idea. Again…take your time, adjust with how you feel. I went up, down….then stayed at a certain dosage for sometimes a couple months, then moved down from there. Ultimately there comes a day where you take your last suboxone or piece of suboxone and cross your fingers, put on your seat belt and get ready for a mental F****ing ride.
As much as I am blunt on my site, I mentioned I felt better after 12 days… Now feeling better, and feeling back to normal are two totally different things. You know…it’s just a process unfortunately that we all have to go thru or those who choose to go through it.
Thanks for the comments and wish you the best.
Brian
Suboxone Taper
I like your site. I hope it goes well and you keep getting more and more people.
I wish you would put a more specific taper plan for people to follow.
Happy you got off of this ride, best to you.
i only could get 9 subs. I’m coming off of a .3 of heroin a day. Any sugestion as to how to make the best of the 9 subs?
Hi, gr8 post thanks for posting. Information is useful!
Wise,
I did run out of ambien cause all the planning I did prior to my detox… I overlooked the most important thing to me… When I did run out though it was on the last few days of the worst days. I took, like you said, benadryl, and it did do the trick. Made me tired enough, which made me relax, and in turn it helped till I was feeling ok. Good point that you kicked in here that I forgot about.
Brian
Suboxone Taper
Benadryl, believe it or not, is excellent for anxiety and sleep those first few miserable nights. As Brain already mentioned walking, B vitamins, and energy supplements (not too many though as they will make you nervous) and exercise. And this has nothing to do with supplements but a 12 step program is so important in my recovery! It helps me live life on a daily basis and clear away all the wreckage of the past so we all can live and make better choices today!