Just to further emphasize the hormonal problems that sustained opiate useage can cause (NOT speaking of just estrogen here, Guys!) think of those hot flashes that produce all that sweating (if you’re lucky to get the sweats) during detox. I experienced a seemingly never-ending, sustained hot flash the first time I tried to detox of H.

The sensation would rise up my back and hit my neck like I was an upside-down matchstick. When it hit my neck, the “flash” would spread over my body like the sulpher had then ignited. At times between these flashes, my skin was just plain hot, as if I was in the direct sunshine. The sensitivity to heat from the outside environment was intense enough to cause me to scream obscenities at whomever was near, even at the dog… Of course, in response to this over-heated condition is the sweats, which are so profuse that it causes the skin to be chilled afterwards.

This heat/chill imbalance has a direct relationship to imbalance of the hormones in our bodies, possibly even more pronounced in women. The relationship between hormones and mood has been studied for decades, but what has gotten little attention is the relationship between PROPER protein consumption — NOT referring merely to eating meat here; proteins exist in everything — the enzymes necessary to metabolize/catabolize those proteins, and hormone levels in our bloodstream.

Even less attention has been given to how opiate use throws our hormone-producing glands into chaos. We users fail to notice it because of the power of opiates to cover/mask almost any mood one could possibly feel. And either as addicts or simply because of ego, we tend to deny that what’s going on in the body affects our mood; until, of course, the opiate is removed… Anyone who’s tried detoxing from opiates knows well the eruption of emotions that come out of us when detoxing begins.

Again, I’m remaining vague here as far as recmmending specific supplementation, simply because hormones are so powerful. Additionally, there are so many other processes going on in the body that need attention — like liver destruction; most of us smoke cigarettes; circulation retardation, both blood and lymph — that more than just hormonal balance needs to be addressed.

Since these body-damaged systems effect our moods SO strongly — whether one is aware of it or not — I can only encourage EVERYone, whether you’re detoxing or still using, to START and STAY on a diet of fruits, vegtables, health-enhancing teas, supplementation with whole-food vitamins. Go easy on the meats, processed sugar, and especially yeast-containing foods like most breads. Stay away from foods laden with animal fats which, unfortunately for our generation, are full of hormones, esp. growth hormone.

To boot, almsot every product in our household these days has some petroleum-derived substance in it — like deodorant/antiperspirant, soap, plastic bottles — which the body DOES absorb and can confuse as a hormone. To make matters worse, our water supply in this “21st” Century has the highest level of hormones in the history of mankind. Few filtering systems even detect them, much less remove them.

[Gee, as I write this, I wonder if I'm not hinting at what caused us to be so f'g emotional in the first place that we found the emotion-deadening opiate so attractive in the first place! I gotta stop writing now -- I'm frightening myself!]

“Etffsdf” also has some good advice. Those hot baths can make a big difference in helping one get through the detox process, even though as a lost-in-low-awareness heavy user, I almost loathed bathing! (How embarassing it is to admit that!) It helps with the overly hot skin which then sweats; the skin emits waste on a more even keel, which in turn reduces the stress on the body. Calms the muscles, too.

I add an essential oil to the bath water, like lavender or clary sage, in an effort to help my mood, or helps calm what I call “stress breathing.” Using oils like eucalyptus or bay rum (or something that “penetrates” the scent glands can help with the sinus stuffiness if that’s one of your symptoms (anybody else sneeze every hour?) (Which oil is your choice, but use just a little!)

Like you, Brian, I’ve also discovered that walking, even with no destination in mind, is a tremendous aid. At first, I could barely stand up straight and had to walk very, very slowly. I have no doubt that it begins to re-aquaint the brain with its own endorphin-releasing ability. Yet just as important, walking helps turn those hour-long minutes of time back into minutes.

Thanks again for the nice reply. Hope this helps all of us find some peace.
-g

Great info and one of the best posts in a long time. Maybe I’ll just make this one a category and let people comment on what you wrote. You added alot of stuff I had not covered. Thanks again and talk to you soon. Feel free to e-mail me.

Brian
Suboxone Taper

I’m new here; just found this site in my desperate hours of trying to free myself from a now-twenty-year dependence on opiates. What a sanity-saver your site has become for me. I’ve been trying to kick the suboxone for two months now, with only the knowledge of what kicking H. and/or methadone was like. Suboxone is an altogether different beast. End result: FAILURE.

I jumped off the suboxone cliff after tapering from 8 mg per day, down to 4, down to 2, down to 0 in just one and-a-half month’s time. I had been on 8 mg. for over almost two years. I took this jump out of a desire to live up to a trusted and admired friend’s admonition, that I just couldn’t do the things he does if I was on suboxone. His intention, of course, was good, but his knowledge of opiate addiction/dependence was gleaned only from the rumor mills.

My story is for another section of your site, so I’ll elaborate elsewhere. Yet I would like to say this OVER AND OVER AGAIN: Let absolutely nothing but YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE tell you when it is time to jump into the burning waters of healing. That time WILL come.

I’m currently back on 1 mg. per day, and have plans to taper further. The only positive outcome of having tried to quit for the wrong reasons has been the gathering of more information on how to quit properly, with better odds of success. As antithetical as this statement may seem, it is, in fact, the return to the 1 mg. per day of the suboxone that has allowed me to continue the battle to quit.

This topic of nutritional supplements is one that I’m researching with keen interest right now. It seems the physical symptoms can all be addressed through more than one resource — like Immodium for the stomach, muscle relaxors for the incessant stretching, valium for the intense, over-active nerves, Ambien for sleep — and I realize these aids are for REDUCTION, not elimination, of these sypmtoms.

However, in MY experience, it is the shift of my mental health that has proved the hardest battle. It CANNOT be fought with talk therapy! Trying to talk through the detox of suboxone is tantamount to trying to talk someone out of an insulin overdose.

Through my still on-going research, I’ve found that there is a seriously imbalanced, dysfunction of hormone production and use in the body of a detoxing opiate user. This dysfunctional situation, involving three key areas in the body/brain, accounts for so many gripping thoughts that range all the way from feelings of sadness, a flat affect, to uncontrolled violent outbursts and plans of suicide.

Underlying these shifts of HORRID DISPOSITIONS is that fatal loss of joie de vivre, a feeling of “Just don’t f’g care.” While in the throes of detox, I consider searching for things that may help me get through the battle, yet am paralyzed to do so. “Just don’t f’g care,” coupled with exhaustion on every level — physical, mental, spiritual — simply renders self-help impossible.

Again, my research has lead me to find information about hormone imbalances that brings about these “moods.” I hesitate to call them “moods” because that word minimizes the gravity of the situation, suggesting that it’s something that will pass soon if one just has the will to change.

I’m not speaking here of just serotonin, nor of just the estrogen/testoterone equation, although these are hormones that have importance. Melatonin is part of the equation here, as is trytophan, and other amino acids, proteins in their proper combinations. Although these are not classified as “hormones,” they are those substances that “interact” with the hormones in the body, without which that critical balance cannot be achieved. Also included in this interaction are critical nutriets like the B complex.

I am purposely not giving specific information here because I’m still trying to compile a list of supplements AND FOODS for myself to have in hand before I make the big leap. I encourage everyone in my situation to search sites like FloridaDetox.com and read what experienced doctors, working with opiate withdrawal, have been using to help their patients. Search the sites of nutritionists for information as to HOW these things work, not the sites which merely sell the products.

I have also found that the acid/alkaline balance of food has helped me. I have been making a “smoothie” each morning, a blend of fresh fruits with the addition of some form of the green mixes of blue-green algea and Reishi mushroom. I’ve found the green mixes DO help with the dysphoria, in particular, and go further to re-build all the physical damage — like loss of muscle tone, dehydration, constipation — done by the opiate usage.

Finally, I note that it is the CONTIUNED use of these supplements AND FOODS that produces the support the body/mind needs to recover. A little here, a little there will NOT produce results. Also, I am referring here to a DIET of proper supplementation, not the act of merely buying a bottle of pills and expecting to be able to take a few, then forget about it.

I’ll be continuing to read the posts here, Brian, and answer whatever questions I can. Like you mention in so many posts, it is up to the individual to do the work FOR THE INDIVIDUAL. I can share my list of aids that I’m gathering when I’ve completed it.

In the meantime, I can make a few suggestions. Like for those who are still using heavily to buy a bottle of aloe vera juice — a WELL MADE brand! circa $15-$25 per quart — and take about two big swigs of it every morning. That’s all you need ON A DAILY BASIS. Within two or three days, your chronic consipation will be helped tremendously, if not eliminated.

Hope to speak with you again and often,
-G
PS Brian, feel free to edit my posts.

The thing is there is no taper process really. Well, I mean all I did was take my time and I mean… I just took “my” time. See, when you go into a doctors office, be it if they are cool, supportive or just idiots; you’re just one more client. The advice that is given is just “text book” in the literal sense. So when you hear a doctor say “Angela, tapering slowly is the best way to go and in addition you are ready”… Dont let anyone tell you how your life is, how you feel or what you’re ready for.

When I was ready and I knew that I was truly on a different track and lifestyle, that is when I started a slow taper. Did it really help? I dont know, I didn’t jump off at 6mg or what ever. Either way, you got to pay up sometime. I would like to think that the taper did help, I think that is just common sense…. I mean jumping off at 16mg I don’t think would be a great idea. Again…take your time, adjust with how you feel. I went up, down….then stayed at a certain dosage for sometimes a couple months, then moved down from there. Ultimately there comes a day where you take your last suboxone or piece of suboxone and cross your fingers, put on your seat belt and get ready for a mental F****ing ride.

As much as I am blunt on my site, I mentioned I felt better after 12 days… Now feeling better, and feeling back to normal are two totally different things. You know…it’s just a process unfortunately that we all have to go thru or those who choose to go through it.

Thanks for the comments and wish you the best.

Brian
Suboxone Taper

I wish you would put a more specific taper plan for people to follow.

Happy you got off of this ride, best to you.